#59 Investigating Paranormal and UFO Activity with Ryan Stacey
January 14th, 2022
Johnny Burke: Welcome to another edition of Closer To Venus. I’m Johnny Burke. Today’s guest is Ryan Stacey. He is a private investigator and active Canadian and Ufologist. He is also a paranormal/ psychogenic investigator, as well as former national chief investigator for MUFON Canada and director of field investigator training for MUFON National USA. Today, we’re going to be talking about how organizations he has developed support experiencers as well as researchers. Ryan, welcome to the program.
Ryan Stacey: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Johnny Burke: How does one become a paranormal investigator?
Ryan Stacey: That’s a good question to start off with. I fell into it, accidentally. It’s an interest. And then all of a sudden, the curiosity, of is there life after death? Or is there another dimension? Is there anything bigger and stronger than us, out there. I had a case as a private investigator to locate a missing person. the thought according to the client, was that her son was abducted by aliens. So at this time I was into paranormal, not UFO. so I ended up finding the guy,and it turns out that he joined Scientology. In order to find this guy, I had to join all these paranormal groups in order to understand the culture and, kind of play in the playground in which, he was profiled in. And then somebody else had complained about not receiving any manual after paying $200 for a training course. So they were complaining about fraud here in Canada. So I piped in and said, it’s an illegal activity, and then I helped them get their money back by contacting MUFON , and then the guy ,Stu Bundy at the time, knew I was investigator and said,” Hey, What do you think about UFO’s?” , And I was like, “aren’t those machines like the governments have?” And he was like, “well, you know, not all of them”. So we had a conversation with that. So then I joined just because I was bored and I was waiting between clients. I like puzzles and this is a puzzle I haven’t solved yet.
Johnny Burke: You make good point about the paranormal and the UFO phenomena. Those are actually two different things. Many people think it’s all lumped into one area.
Ryan Stacey: The word itself paranormal simply means anything that’s not normal. If you have an unidentified flying object of your technically studying things that you can’t find. so I really don’t like that term. I’m trying to use phenomenologists cause I’m studying the people in a sociology perspective. But technically it’s paranormal because until it’s confirmed that the government has the technology. To us it should be paranormal because it’s not normal based on the science that has been presented. the issue is the academic side because of this metaphysics, this inter dimension, this other space and time that’s been theorized, they can’t measure it. They can’t touch it. They can’t do much with it. Whereas on the paranormal side, there’s that belief that I know that sensation and all that, but that can’t be measured. it’s a different game. I feel like the Ufology community, prides in being highly educated and scientific.
As a private investigator who just only looks at evidence and facts, I solved that years ago. The thing that I can’t seem to wrap around is the idea of some of us have this psychic ability or, a way of communicating with something, either in this space in time or another, place, whether that be extraterrestrial or paranormal. So I I’ve grouped everything together because I can only prove with my science, or I can hypothesize with our science that we are the ones that are able to connect at least with each other. Until we’re able to find, or capture or present, something otherwise. I’m not convinced that there’s a higher, like there’s another being out there because we’re powerful ourselves. That’s kind of where I’m sitting right. now, I’m in the middle of doing a study. So that’s kind of where it’s leading me.
Johnny Burke: Tell us more about MUFON and why you eventually had to leave.
Ryan Stacey: For those of you don’t know who MUFON is, it’s a mutual UFO network. They started up after Project Blue Book had ended. The idea was to collect reports allegedly for the CIA after project blue book had closed. But then that stopped and then went into this whole Hollywood marketing thing where it encouraged people to join, and search for the truth. So, a lot of people were interested in doing that. So when I was a field investigator. My first case, I’m actually being published in the journal. They recognized my skill set and everything like that and they totally marketed it. It was something I wasn’t familiar with cause I’m always undercover, I’m always in the shadows. I’m not, wanting to be out in the open.
In going from field investigator to chief investigator for Ontario, which is where the province I’m in. And then in Canada, I also had to be a director. So the director was responsible of making money or raising money for the non-for-profit organization. So I did that for a little bit and then I started to have a problem with charging, with the model. MUFONs model was pay first and then we’ll give you our answers. even though I was doing quite well, and there’s other investigators that were doing quite well, there are some investigators within the organization that don’t actually know what they’re doing, and people pay for that. There’s a lot of disappointment that came with that model.
So then when I become the director of training, I was responsible for teaching every field investigator for MUFON for a while. And the MUFON university was outdated and there were mistakes, so I put together this huge package- let’s rewrite the manual, because let’s change the universe for science. It was at that point that I realized that it was all about money, because they didn’t care that the science was right. They didn’t care about remaking the model because it took a lot of resources and a lot of money. So I said, okay, well, I’ll pay for it. I can do it. No problem. So I did that, I created this model and then they still wouldn’t take it.
And then the tic-tac thing came out at that time. I saw one of the original videos, which wasn’t grainy at all . It kind of looked like a blimp to me. And I was the only one who was looking into that. So I started getting cast out. I was like, okay, I’m going to step down as director- I’m no longer raising your guys’ money. I’m just going to do the work. Also at the time, which is actually news now, I can actually talk about this, is there’s a gentlemen named Christopher Rutkowski, in Canada who is the big guy on campus in terms of media. And he puts together a survey every year for Canada, compiling MUFON Canada data as well as other information there from around the country. But the thing is I analyzed it being inside in MUFON and realized that it was wrong. It was changed. It was inaccurate. When I said something about it, it turns out that Chris was friends with MUFON, so they forced me out.
And at that point they wiped out everything. They deleted my email; they deleted all my cases. So I had over 1500 cases that I had investigated for MUFON at that time. And just recently I passed my leads off to a journalist and the journalist had done some further digging and got some bulletproof confirmation; we were able to prove that the Canadian government has been fielding UFO reports to this man, on the pretext that he was supposed to make them public. But then we found out that he hasn’t, and he’s been hoarding them , and withholding information as a media consultant for a university. So he’s currently quiet right now. while he prepares a statement to explain himself.
This is why I like the ufology thing for me. But the thing is the experiencer, which is why I created the experiencer support association, for the people that don’t know this and they don’t need to hear this, or they have a feeling, but they don’t want to talk about it. They don’t want to get into it because they’re experiencing something and that’s what needs to be dealt with.
Johnny Burke: So when we talk about disclosure, it seems like there’s been an awful lot of chatter over the past year and so far, the said disclosures, pretty underwhelming. What you just told me about MUFON can explain an awful lot of confusion The experiencer support association, I believe is TESA . Tell us a little bit about that, how that helps experiencers and researchers as well.
Ryan Stacey: The experiencer support association is essentially the business model that I had created for MUFON to fix everything that I observed while working for them as an investigator. That was also offered to them on a joint venture agreement. The philosophy behind the experiencer support association is putting the experiencer for first. There’s no,” I think it’s a UFO or it’s not a UFO, let’s get rid of it.” cause that was another issue with MUFON. If anything paranormal came in, they would just delete it and experiencers didn’t know about it. And here they are reporting, thinking that they’re going to get help and then they don’t get a response. One of my jobs was to delete it and I never did, so that was also a problem.
But now when we believe the experiencer in that aspect, my role as the director of investigations here to determine whether what you think you experienced is actually what you experienced. What we’ve generated is this ultra spectrum classification system, which is an upgraded model of the Hynek and Vallee Classification system to include paranormal and psychogenic activity, but it groups them in a basic level so , it kind of dumbs it down for the ufology community. Whereas the paranormal community are like, they’re brilliant- they understand metaphysics, they get it. But we can’t measure it physically .
Also we have what’s called Experiencers Anonymous, which is a portal where if people aren’t sure what element of TESA is good for you, you can just go to our website tesacan.org/ EA and just register it. You go in, you talk about your experience, or you listen to other people’s experiences and try to figure out what you have in common, and what experiences are common. At that point, you might get encouraged to make a report. That’s beneficial for me because the trauma is removed. The speculation is removed. So then if you decide to report after that, the implication is that all that fluff has been removed. And then once the report comes in we have a private team of referrals for like regression , flow tanks or Reiki, any of the healing aspects of pseudoscience. What we want to do is want to treat the trauma. If, if there’s anything there, I’ll bring that down and then measure again.
This is where the PI part comes in; got to look into past history. You’ve got to look into mental health to make sure there’s no past traumas. But once that process is done, I compile that all into data and then do surveys and things like that every year for the science and when we present it to the experiencer. It’s a one-on-one case. It’s, it’s encouraging like, you may have been affected, you may have been visited. You perceive it to be negative because you don’t understand, but we can’t prove intent. So there’s possibility it was there for good things. Let’s think positive about it. The next time it happens, try to get more information. We try to encourage them to engage them phenomenon at the same time report back to us. And then we have a timeline.
So where MUFON was investigating only UFO cases and specifically evidence, what we’re doing with the team is we’re measuring everybody’s experiences throughout their life. We get aliens, we get UFOs , we get paranormal, we get psychic abilities, but when we timeline it, I am seeing a pattern, then it starts with contact of some sort of visitation. Then as the subject evolves, we start to see paranormal, we start to see psychic abilities. We start to see a little visitation here and then the psychic abilities enhance whether that’s secret government PSYOP program, MK ultra, or aliens or, ghosts or inter-dimensional, something is visiting with direct contact.
And then all of a sudden, they’re experiencing a life of paranormal, but they think because of mainstream media, that it’s ghost and it’s alien, because of TV. And then the other thing we’re trying to gear them towards. What, what if it’s just you, what if the, these objects have just moved because you have an intense psychic ability. You think it’s a ghost, but it’s not- it’s you. There’s no way to prove whether we’re communicating with ourselves, or something extra-terrestrial, but it’s still paranormal cause it’s not normal. So, I’m supporting the idea that we are super beings and that comes from my ancient alien research in the sense that, It started that way and it should end that way. That’s the way it was.
Johnny Burke: It sounds like the support association, the biggest difference between that and MUFON other than it’s not necessarily money motivated is that it fully embraces the metaphysical side of things, the quantum realm and so forth.
Ryan Stacey: We still do the UFO stuff. I’m fighting with disclosure here in Canada . The Pentagon in the US, now that they have an official desk, at least for UFO starting in 2022, my job becomes harder because now I have to convince the public, whether or not what you think you experienced is one of the things that they think that they have, so now we’re competing against the coverup. We let everybody come to us, whatever way they want. With our classification system, we break it down.
There’s evidence to suggest that they may be seeing it in their mind. And that’s why no one else witnesses it. Or their mind allows them to see alternative realities dimensions. We allow them to draw UFO’s, people from different areas within Canada and some in the states. We are starting to get some people from UK catching onto what we’re doing as well, they are drawing the same things. They’re starting to see this reality that doesn’t exist and how you take a picture of that? It came from their mind, and it wasn’t a photo, they don’t accept it.
Johnny Burke: What type of people are most likely susceptible to this kind of phenomena? It seems like intuitives have a lot to do with it. People that are highly intuitive, they could be clairaudient, they could be clairvoyant, clairsentient, and so on. I think there’s a pretty strong correlation with the intuitive gifts, intuitive abilities and the reports.
Ryan Stacey: I agree. the science that we’re doing is starting to show that I’m in the middle of creating my second report for 2021. I do two reports; one is the Canadian current events survey, which I track drone reports , aviation reports from Canada that get reported by aviation pilots. Sometimes they say drone, sometimes they say UAV. Sometimes they use the word UFO. What I do is I keep track of the current ones who do freedom of information requests. I try to get more information to do an investigation, to figure out what’s going on because there’s a conspiracy theory that they’re calling these UFO’s drones. In Canada, they just call them UFO’s.
The second one that I’m working on, the meat and potatoes of my research is the Ultra Spectrum Paranormal Report . So I have to show everybody our new way of classification. Hynek and Vallee are pioneers of this classification system. That’s what MUFON adopted because Hynek and Vallee stopped using it themselves because they realized it wasn’t adequate enough to measure the extra-terrestrial hypothesis or the interdimensional, ITH. So, it’s been programmed that this has been the best system, but it’s been broken for so long.
So part of the questions that are asked are blood type and age at the time of the event. I’ve established all these markers that should not change. No matter what religion, ethnicity you have, wherever you are in the world of those constants. I think the study is showing right now that A blood type is the highest from our sample which is odd because, there’s that theory that the negative blood, the RH negative blood, is God blood. Also there’s that theory, that it’s O, the universal blood type that can everything. But I’m seeing A, and I’m also seeing a variance of blue and and green eye color. So green is rare. Blue gets traced all the way back to Sumerian. So there’s a lot of genetics that I’m learning through these people with confirmed experiences.
Part of the investigative process that’s different from MUFON is I’m not investigating the case. What I’m doing is I’m teaching the experiencer how to get me better information. So many people have the answers and nobody’s working together, which is another reason why I’ve created the association. People that see me as a threat are the people that are doing it for money, because they’re all friends of MUFON . So I have to make new friends, which is really hard to do.
Johnny Burke: I couldn’t help it notice, when we talk about the association, there seems to be similarities with IANDS , the international association for near-death studies, which collects data from experiencers. So with the support association, once the information is reported, what do you do with it then?
Ryan Stacey: internally?
Johnny Burke: Not internally, what do you do to really get it out to the consumers, the public?
Ryan Stacey: the plan with the ultra-spectrum paranormal report that’s going to be the raw data with the information that we’ve collected. That’ll be an annual report. I also want to show the work that goes into how I came to that conclusion. The UFO report is I show the raw data, which is what every investigator needs. They’ll take it and the formulate their own conclusions or speculate on the data, because they’re all looking for something. And the goal is to teach the experiencers how to think. So that way, when they do report, I’m not spending as much time on lens flares, on light refractions, on, on all these things that a lot of people don’t understand. The other part of the support is for researchers and investigators too
TESA also has a what’s called Project Babel, which comes from the tower of Babel philosophy, where we all used to be together then we were separated. Everyone talks about unity. Everyone talks about working together, and then the people that work together are the people that are making money together. So with Babel, what it allows you to do, you go to TESACanada.org/ project babble. It allows you to submit your own work after your case has been closed. It gives me the opportunity to work with you one-on-one to make sure that you didn’t miss anything . At the same time, if you found something that I’m looking for, it gives me the opportunity to offer you a position on my team.
What I’m not finding is other investigators sharing their work to the collective cause as well. That’s why I created this system along with Tim Morrison. He helped me figure out how to apply the paranormal aspect of demonology aspect, the levels of possession and whatnot.
So what we’re showing is super data. So everyone’s doing the work, but if we all compile it to this association, we’ll have more evidence We’ll have more data. And in my role in this, as a private investigator who handles evidence for a reason, it’s just to make sure that it’s the best evidence being presented. And to make sure that we’re linking circumstantial evidence to direct evidence.
So I rule out all that stuff and we only present the unknowns and just because we don’t know what it is, doesn’t mean that it’s, aliens or UFO’s, it just means we don’t know what it is. And the hope is that someone will say “Hey, I read your book or I saw your Ultra spectrum, and I think I know what this is.” Great. Would you like to be on this team? So I’m also creating that element where people can work together, but nobody wants to, and I don’t know if that’s a marketing thing or?
Johnny Burke: The scientific community, you would think would actually contribute and, support something like this. But it seems to me, their mindset, their philosophies tend to get in the way. Similar to what the church and state did centuries ago when they were repressed certain movements which did not fit their agenda.
What is the interstellar, the academy of ufology and paranormal studies?
Ryan Stacey: So that is our plan to basically teach everyone how to investigate anything. what I’m going to do is I’m going to start with a basic private investigating detective policing, handling evidence course. That should branch off into a masterclass. I would teach a ufology course in Canada. I’m also looking for experts to sell a service. To teach people about the phenomenon so that everybody can understand little bit of all of these, phenomenon separately. And then my role, when I start with, how do you handle evidence at the end of that course? I show everyone how to bring it all together and how it’s all connected.
If I train new people the new way and then say, here’s Project Babel. When you find a case, when you talk to people, you’re now an agent of TESA, use this reporting system, submit your work. This is going to rebuild ufology and paranormal studies.
Johnny Burke: I think what you’re trying to do is a very good thing. There’s definitely similarities to what IANDS does for people that have near death experiences you have some barriers, but I think you’re trying to work through it.
Ryan Stacey: We do need the scientific community. They’re just not the people you should start with. You need to start like a crime scene starts with a police investigator. Then you call in the forensic unit when you find forensic evidence that needs to be collected. As civilians we called the police when we need to, but we don’t need to call them right away. There’s a place for science, just not yet if we don’t have the evidence to do that. But the scientific community doesn’t know how to get to the analysis. The samples are already provided to them and then they do their work. So that’s why they can’t get anywhere because no one’s collected the data for them to analyze. So there is a need for them, just, just not now
Johnny Burke: Ryan, thanks so much for joining us today. How can our listeners find out more about you as well as TESA?
Ryan Stacey: Yeah, I’m on facebook.com/heed the world. I’m also on Twitter /heedtheworld_ R S. The website is www.tesacan.org