#58 Robert Ginsberg: The Medium Explosion
Johnny Burke: Welcome to another edition of closer to Venus I’m Johnny Burke. Today’s guest is Robert Ginsburg, the founder of Forever Family Foundation, author of The Medium Explosion, host of the Signs of Life radio show. He’s also featured in the Netflix docuseries Surviving Death. Today we’ll be talking about mediumship and other evidence of life after death.
Robert, welcome to the program.
Robert Ginsberg: Thank you, Johnny. It’s my pleasure to be with you today.
Johnny Burke: Excellent. You’ve done quite a bit of research in the mediumship, which apparently has a lot to do with survival of consciousness. How did you find yourself on that path?
Robert Ginsberg: If you go back, 20 years, the topic that we’re discussing today was totally foreign to me. , if you mentioned that, I probably said you were full of crap, that this stuff couldn’t possibly exist. In my view, we were our brains, and when our brains were no more, we were no more. So using my left-brain logical thinking I didn’t see any way that we could survive physical death.
One morning, on September 1st, 2002, my wife woke up in bed, three o’clock in the morning. She sat straight up and she was shaking and trembling Ashen white. I said, “what’s the matter?” And she said, ” something horrible is going to happen today.” And I said, “well, what does that mean?” she just said” I don’t know, but it’s devastating”. So make a long story short, I took her seriously. I watched over my three kids during the day. I let my guard down at night. I let it fade from my awareness, and my son and daughter were in a car crash and my daughter didn’t survive. My son had very serious injuries. And that led me on the path. Eventually when it became clear that my son was going to survive his injuries, I remembered that morning. And I said, wait a second- how did my wife Fran know? Cause she knew. And that started me on a quest.
I needed the science part of it; people that will well-credentialed and scientists and researchers and medical doctors to tell me if it was possible that our consciousness still survived. So that’s the path that I took. One of the scientists that I had started a relationship with studied mediumship and my wife dragged me to a medium, which I went to reluctantly. And the medium told me three extremely specific pieces of information that she could not have looked up or found out or nobody would know. I was struggling, cause I didn’t believe in it on one hand, but how could she know? so that started me on a search. I read literally hundreds of books on mediumship, going back to the mid 18 hundreds and the different types of mediumship. And one thing went to another. You referenced the the certification program.
Since 2005 our foundation Forever Family Foundation that we started in 2003. That’s what we’ve been doing. We evaluated the information that a medium can provide under controlled conditions eliminating fraud. We score the information and those meeting our minimum guidelines of granted certification. Having said, that historically since 2005 85 to 90% of the mediums that we’ve evaluated have not gained certification. I mentioned in the book that I wrote that you referenced, The Medium Explosion , in my opinion, based upon my experience I think that 85 to 90% of the practitioners, the mediums out there today, can’t do what they claim. It’s not to say that they’re all fraudulent- some small degree certainly are, but they’re just inexperienced and they haven’t really developed their abilities.
Johnny Burke: One of the common skeptic refrains is how do we know that the mediums can really speak to the dead? could they just be reading our minds?
Robert Ginsberg: Yeah, that’s a legitimate question. I considered that as well. The best arguments against that are very often the medium we’ll give you, as the sitter, the person sitting with the medium, information that you didn’t know, and that you later discover it to be true. Or sometimes there are drop-in communicators. In other words, people from the spirit world that the medium doesn’t know, and that you, as the sitter don’t know when they give you evidential information, which you later find out to be true. So it’s hard to make the argument that they’re reading your mind, if you were not aware of the entity that’s coming through or that information.
There’s another argument that people make that what mediums do or they’re, they’re picking out they’re plucking information from a vast field of information, to extract it. It’s conceivable, but I always think that as extraordinary as it may be to go into one of these fields of information and pick out, information from, trillions and trillions and trillions of bits of information that have occurred since the Dawn of man., But then how do you extract a personality? It’s not a data point. Mediums sometimes take on the personality and can describe the personality of the person in spirit. So to me, the survival explanation seems more logical than being able to extract information from a field.
Johnny Burke: Right. And since you brought that up, when I hear and read about reincarnation cases, as there has been thousands starting with Dr. Ian Stevenson. When I read about how a four-year-old kid in Australia has memories of princess Diana. Is it possible that he’s tapping into the Akash or Superpsi. So I think that’s interesting that you can make the same presumption about mediumship and past lives and reincarnation. There’s a very interesting parallel there.
Robert Ginsberg: Yeah, and I’ve questioned that myself, when it comes to reincarnation. Whether or not it they are truly remembering a person’s life, or it’s some sort of a Psi occurrence. But again, as you mentioned, with the work of Stevenson over four decades, and 5,000 cases, and then the work by Jim Tucker, the researcher becomes a detective, and they take all the information that the child remembers. Then they pull medical reports and autopsy reports and real estate records and so forth. And they go and they, able to validate that information. And sometimes if they’re lucky, and the past life happens to be in the same, family, happens to be in the same geographical area, the research will accompany the family to visit the family that he remembered. Sometimes the family members from the past life are astounded at the information that they know.
So, it’s one of those things that we’ll never quite know for sure. But the evidence is really astounding. In the surviving death series on Netflix, the last episode deals with reincarnation and had a couple of excellent cases, that are mind-boggling, They are extraordinary cases, but you show what we’re talking about with the evidence.
Johnny Burke: It is incredible. And when you look at the work of Dr. Michael Newton, and some of the cases of the in-between life space, where they make soul contracts and they pick their parents, it’s almost like they are casting a movie or something, I think the mediumship is really important. Your work with the forever family foundation, organizations like Windbridge are really important to communicate with people that not all these people are frauds; that actually there is some evidence that it works.
Robert Ginsberg: Interestingly enough, there are many mediums that we have certified, that Windbridge has also certified, so that shows that the kind of the system works. They were able to pass through ours and pass through theirs, so you really know that they are the real deal. I think the other value of mediumship is the transformative effects that it can have on somebody’s grief. If people get a very, very strong evidential reading, it could really flip the way that they think about death and their loved ones. There have been a bunch of clinical studies and published in peer-reviewed journals, that substantiate that. And we’ve witnessed that.
Next week I leave, for one of our grief retreats. We have a bunch of certified mediums that are there, as well as grief professionals and metaphysical practitioners and so forth. You could see tangible results. You could see people when they arrive at the retreat, and the state that they’re in- various stages of grief. And then when they leave and there’s a lightness to them. Very often those positive effects are long-lasting, it stays with them.
Mediumship is a very, very serious business, and you can’t just get into it on a whim because you want to be like, so-and-so on TV comes with tremendous responsibility. I’m always aware of the fact that, let’s say you’re in grief, and you’re not really sure whether you want to buy into life after death, and you go to see a medium, and the medium does not connect on anything, or gives you a whole wrong information, or it’s obvious that they’re guessing. You can walk away from that reading in worse shape than when you got there. Cause you walk away saying, all right, all mediums are the same. I went to this medium and then, she, or he was horrible, so that’s it. In the certification program, we want to provide a resource for the bereaved, there are some practitioners that they could rely upon. And it’s not a guarantee if you go to the medium that you definitely going to get a connection and a powerful reading. There’s a lot of things that have to take place in a reading. There’s three parties. There’s the party and spirit, there’s the medium and then there’s you as the sitter. And there has to be a resonance with things are all clicking. And if one of those things is out of whack, it’s not going to happen. But what we found over the years is that the mediums that we have certified are very, very consistent. They rarely have a bad reading, and they rarely don’t connect. That that’s the difference.
Johnny Burke: Speaking of mediums, I know there’s different types. There’s the mental mediums, and there’s trance mediums. There’s also the term psychic medium. And I think all mediums are psychic, but not all psychics are mediums. So can you tell us the difference, especially between the trance medium and the mental medium?
Robert Ginsberg: Yeah, I think, 99.9% of the mediums out there today are what we call mental mediums. The theory is that they communicate with people in the afterlife world or another dimension through a telepathic process. So it’s really mind to mind communication, except that one of the parties involved no longer has a body, but they still have a mind, or a consciousness or a soul. So that’s where the communication is taking place. There were mediums in the past, and still some today, that would go into trance, and in trance, the person in spirit would take over the medium’s body. In some cases, would be able to communicate through the mediums vocal chords. This full trance with the medium doesn’t remember any part of the conversation that took place, and partial trance, where afterwards, , they will remember some of the stuff.
In physical mediumship, that was researched and very prevalent in the mid to late 18 hundreds and the Victorian area, the early 19 hundreds. Don’t forget in those times, there was no internet and there were no forms of entertainment. When people used to gather in seances you know, as something to do and people were fascinated, and there was a lot of frauds, but there were a lot of incredible things. A physical mediumship, they call it that because there’s physical phenomena that take place. People see levitations, they see visions of their loved ones formed out of ectoplasm, they’ll see solid things just materialize and fall down, like coins or stones and things of that nature. so it’s an incredible thing.
The physical mediumship from a research perspective is that the mediums insists that the seances take place in total darkness. They’ll have occasionally very brief periods of very low, red light that comes on. You can sort of see the outlines of things. But most of the sessions take place and the dark. I was curious after all those years and took part in a seance with a physical medium. And yes, I did witness this phenomenon, and I did for lack of a better term, get smacked in the head and the shoulders about 15 times, from this, they call it a floating trumpet. It’s really a cylinder made out of cardboard in the shape of sort of like a megaphone or a trumpet. It would float in the air-
Johnny Burke: you actually saw it floating in the air?
Robert Ginsberg: Yeah, well, they put some illuminating tape on the rim of the trumpet. And when they turn on that very dim red light, you could see it, but you can’t see much else. So I couldn’t make an objective decision about whether what I saw was real. It was either total fraud, because it’s in darkness and the medium’s got a pole, or it’s incredible. But I wasn’t offered the chance to examine the room beforehand, I couldn’t see anything, so how can I make a judgment? It’s one of the arguments that researchers have. The physical mediums today will tell you that the reason that they don’t want light is that this material called ectoplasm exudes from their body, and that when it’s subject to direct light, it changes the structure of it, and that could actually physically harm the medium. I’ll accept that explanation, except that from my, research and readings, there were some incredible physical mediums over a hundred years ago that that did all these seances in daylight, so you wonder why they weren’t affected. So it’s a big question mark, but it’s another area of mediumship. So those are pretty much the three, mental, trance and physical mediumship.
Johnny Burke: What type of entities do mediums typically work with? I’ve heard of spirit guides, angels, star beings.
Robert Ginsberg: Mediums don’t often describe that. When you ask them outside of the reading, they’ll tell you that they have spirit guides that they consult. Back in the day when we were talking about the other forms of mediumship, the mediums generally had what they called controls. So the people in spirit would say they have a hard time communicating directly to the physical world. So they had helpers on the other side, actually may have mediums in the other dimension the same way we do it here, and they used to facilitate the process. But in all the readings that I see, the mediums never appear to mention others that are facilitating the process. They’ll just contact spirit in various different ways mediums describe. Some of them will see the spirit or smell the spirit or audibly hear the spirit and so forth. They utilize the physical sense senses in the process, but very few mentioned any type of a spirit guide.
What’s also interesting is that I found strange initially, is that mediums virtually never bring forth negative information, which is puzzling, because we know that the universe is made of both positive energy and negative energy. But when I asked the mediums, they’ll say that before they do conduct a reading they ask their spirit guides to surround them, with positive, white, loving light, and that kind of information doesn’t get communicated. That’s the best explanation that I have heard, but perhaps they do get some negative information, but they’re responsible and they don’t want to convey that to the sitter who may be in a fragile state to begin with.
Johnny Burke: Right, if they’re responsible and they should be, I’ve heard the same thing that protection spells. Just about every medium, I’ve talked to said same thing. I hear about the same thing with shamanism, and the Akash. There’s people that do the Akashic readings that consult spirit guides. is that very similar or is it completely.
Robert Ginsberg: It’s probably very similar. The thought is that we all have guides that look after us. Take end of life experiences, deathbed visions, with people could be hours before their physical death or several weeks before the physical death, start describing and seeing loved ones who have died before them. It’s usually a positive experience and they’re happy, and the implication is that we all have escorts, when we exit this physical plane. that’s a wonderful thing. My opinion is that every one of us has help when our time comes, and we cross over. We may be physically or mentally incapacitated so we can’t communicate that to our loved ones. That doesn’t mean that they don’t take place. I’ve been with family members, and most recently with my wife who passed last year. Near the end, she was reaching out and talking to her deceased aunt who was very instrumental in bringing her up and, she was glad to see her. And it’s the same thing with my mom and so forth. So it happens all the time. I don’t know if you’ve interviewed people that were hospice administrators, but they know these things, it’s a diagnostic tool. They can tell when somebody is getting ready to physically die because they start seeing their loved ones.
Johnny Burke: It’s so common. That happened with my mom, when she was in hospice. she started talking to my grandfather. It’s a very cool thing that people start to learn that it’s not just a figment of their imagination because there’s almost as many cases of bedside experiences (deathbed visons) as near-death experiences.
Robert Ginsberg: Yeah, it doesn’t get much mention or discussion, or research as let’s say, near death experiences. But it may be the most compelling evidence that we have. And nobody likes to talk about it. They are afraid of being judged or ridiculed or thought to be not normal. What we try to do in the foundation is we try to get people to just talk about experiences that you’ve had, to your family, or maybe to your friends or colleagues or whatever, and let them make their own decision. But at least take it out of the closet and make it more open. That’s the only way that we’re going to change worldview about these things.
Johnny Burke: I would agree with that completely. Let’s talk about the book for a minute. The Medium Explosion. There are quite a few examples of evidential mediumship in the book. And I think that’s probably as important as anything. Can you give us a recap of just a couple of those?
Robert Ginsberg: The reason I wrote the book, and the reason I called it medium explosion is that in my view, it’s like a pandemic of mediumship, you know, you’ll have, a medium on every corner. We have TV shows with mediums. Everybody wants to be like them. We all have intuitive ability to certain degrees. Somebody might have an intuitive experience and they mentioned it to somebody and say, “oh, you should be a medium.”. There are no governing bodies when it comes to the practice of mediumship. Mediums are certainly not grief counselors, but yet the dealing with bereaved people. They’re dealing with people that are hurting and grief. That’s why there’s a responsibility there.
Anybody that deals with the public and health, they have governing bodies, they have licensing bodies, they have ethical standards, they have proficiency, continuing ed and so forth. And I could just say, well, I’m a medium, hang out a shingle, start charging a lot of money and so forth.
So I wanted people to be aware that even though 85 to 90%, can’t do what they claim, the 10 to 15%, that can be incredible and do a tremendous service. So I tried to identify techniques that, fraudulent mediums use to give that appearance, that they are connected. I also felt important to include some accounts from some of the mediums you’re referring to and I ended the book with about 10 personal experiences that I have, that I thought were backed up by the research.
There’s a story in the book about one of the mediums that has been certified- a lot of people always ask, do our loved ones in spirit keep tabs on what we’re doing in the physical world, that they know what’s going on? Apparently, they do. One of the mediums had an account where she was doing a reading for a woman, and she’s bringing through the woman’s deceased mom,and the reading is going well, and she’s connecting, and mom’s giving all this evidence and all of a sudden the medium said “shots fired” and the sitter says ” what does that mean?” she goes,” shot fired, two shots fired, three shots fired”, and now, the sitter just wants to walk out; like , my mother wouldn’t be saying that, but yet her mother’s giving her this information. And then she goes,” one dead” and then she goes “two dead”,” four shots fired and three dead”. Literally as soon as she says that, they hear in the street sirens. And they look out the window and police car after police car, is pulling up. And it turns out that while she was giving that information, there was a couple, two houses down where the mother and father were estranged. The father came back and started shooting. And he killed his wife, and mother-in-law and a child. There’s an example, whether you call it a warning or whatever, but apparently, they do keep tabs on what’s going on in a physical life.
Sometimes they intercede, sometimes just a warning. Sometimes I talk to my wife out loud, and I just have conversations with her. So, I’m at the kitchen sink washing the dishes, and we’ve had a house remodeled. And I said out loud to my wife in spirit, I said, ” I don’t care what you said, this kitchen is poorly designed, where every time I washed the dishes, the water goes all over the counter.” The next morning, there’s a friend of ours who also happens to be a medium certified by the foundation. She sends me an email that says, Bob, I was doing my morning meditation, and all of a sudden, Fran, (my wife) popped into the meditation and said, you got to talk to Bob today, and specifically mentioned the kitchen sink. I guess she hears me. You can make the argument that this was not a mediumistic communication; it could have been psychic information, but since I mentioned it, and it was communicated the next morning I, tend to think that it was.
Johnny Burke: it’s really hard for someone to just chance into that kind of information. And your book, the medium explosion has several accounts like that, which are pretty amazing, where you reach the point where you think, I don’t think this has made up- I don’t think it’s fiction. Now that we we’ve covered the evidential mediumship, a question I have about the medium explosion. As you mentioned before, it seems like a pandemic of mediums; there’s they’re everywhere. Why do you suppose that is? Is it related to what one guest described recently as an “empath big bang”?
Robert Ginsberg: You could make the argument that the reason we have more mediums, is because more and more people are entering into the spirit and more of them want to get through, so they need more conduits, to pass on the information. The media has a tremendous amount of influence in these things. Some of these TV shows and movies become very, very popular. Some people are fearful of it, but most people embrace it. They may not be totally convinced, but the idea of getting messages from the other side is attractive.
The problem is that once a medium becomes very successful, they could have three-year waiting lists, and charge obscene amounts of money. I think that mediums always have to be aware of the desperate state that the sitters are in, and they’ll pay anything and go anywhere for the chance- you can’t really take advantage of that situation. Some people will say mediums, they are spiritual people, and they really shouldn’t be charging for the work. I would disagree. Mediums are just like us. They have homes, they have families, they have bills to pay. And so, they have to charge for the services. In a different world, they probably would like to be in a situation where they didn’t have to. So I don’t know what the answer is. A hundred years ago, this is nothing new. It was a medium explosion then, but we just didn’t have the proliferation of practitioners today.
The other problem is that now with the age of social media, can find out anything about anybody, just about. We became aware of a medium that was doing readings on zoom in, and on the left part of her screen, she had the image of the sitter and on the right part of a screen, she had the sitter’s Facebook page open. And she was just going through, all the information on Facebook, fraudulently. And the sitter was” wow”, how do you know this?” so I have to be aware of that as well. You shouldn’t be divulging information to the medium when you set up the reading’ perhaps your first name and you don’t want to volunteer information. Our sitters are trained to give a yes or no type answers; yes, I understand. No, I don’t understand. Can you give me more? The medium is supposed to be giving information to you, not the other way around, and if a medium asks you who you would like to speak to, that’s a no- no in my opinion. It’s their job to bring forth spirit.
Johnny Burke: I think that’s a good suggestion for people that are asking what information should I give and what should I not give? And the simple answer is to give as little information as possible.
Robert Ginsberg: since 2003, and then 2004, when we started certifying these mediums, in all of these years, I’ve never gotten a reading from one of our certified mediums. And the reason that I never did, is because a lot of them knew too much about my personal story so that I knew that I could not trust the information, even though I know that they’re solid and professional and they wouldn’t resort to that.
Recently after my wife passed, one of the researchers asked me if I wanted to get a reading through another medium. The medium’s name was Sandra O’Hara and she was featured in the Netflix documentary. And sadly, Sandra herself passed to the spirit world a few weeks ago. I agreed to get a reading. I only gave her my first name, and I had to pay for the reading and advance. So my friend paid for the reading using her own PayPal account, so she couldn’t make the connection there. And I got an incredible reading and when I get a reading, I score it as if I was evaluating, so I’m very meticulous. And this medium Sandra was 90% accurate and gave me a lot of information that she couldn’t have looked up. So that’s why it’s important, it’s a lot more powerful when you’re convinced that there’s no way that the information could have leaked through explainable sources.
Johnny Burke: One of the things I got from the book was a very simple method is, listen to a recording- always asked for recording. if the medium says, “well, I don’t really like recordings”, that’s probably a red flag. Because you can take the recording and determine if that piece of information is that a hit or miss or a maybe? And if it’s above 70 – 75% accurate, as far as the hits are, that’s a pretty good indication that the medium knew what they were doing
Robert Ginsberg: Yeah, and there were several advantages to recording. The argument that I hear often about the mediums that say no, and they don’t allow recordings;” because spirit interferes with the process. ” Yes, spirit can affect different electronic phenomena, but that’s not a reason- I don’t buy that. but having a recording, as you mentioned, sometimes as the information is coming through, you forget things, so it gives you a record. And also don’t forget, you know, when we want to hear from our loved ones, we want that information to fit. We want them to be making a connection. We remember things that didn’t actually occur. We say the mediums gave me my loved one’s exact name, but then you listen to the recording and maybe the media mentioned six or seven different, common names.
The other advantage is that if you’ve got a good reading and, a long time goes by and you start to doubt and you start to fall a little bit further down in your grief, Hey, I could play the recording and, here’s the evidence, you can listen to it and sort of dig out from that hole that you crawled into, you have tangible evidence . There’s a lot of advantages. And if you can’t record, by all means, take notes during the reading.
Johnny Burke: Right. It’s got to be one of the two. I remember, talking to someone about past life regression, and she always would suggest to record the session. I’m going to record the session for you because there are instances where people think nothing really happens.
And then the therapist plays a recording and that person, the sitter in this case, can actually hear their voice change and think, I did experience something. Whereas if they didn’t have the recording, they might not even remember it. I just think it’s interesting that it’s definitely suggested for not only mediumship readings, but also for past life regression. That’s probably a discussion for another day, but equally important. Another question, and this comes up in the book as well. Why do mediums seldom give a description of the afterlife?
Robert Ginsberg: Yeah, that always puzzled me. A lot of people ask that. After all, if they’re sort of visiting the afterlife, they should be able tell you what the afterlife is like. If you pass over into spirit, the most important thing that you’re going to want to get through is evidence that you still survive. And that can only take place through things that the sitter will identify. names, the way we passed, personalities, specific facts and so forth. And it’s difficult- just think about it; how does the person in spirit even get through the person’s name? You could say, if she wants to communicate George, the person in the spirit realm could try to project an image of George Washington into the medium and hope that the medium will pick up on that. But what if it’s an obscure name? The process has to be difficult.
When you factor in trying to give these elaborate descriptions, what the afterlife realm is in, it’s not going to happen. It did happen in many cases specifically, in the 19 hundreds and 18 hundreds with the trance mediums, where spirit was able to talk about all these things because the voice was just being projected. And they gave these elaborate descriptions and books were written about exactly what goes on in the afterlife.
There’s also such a thing as automatic writing where the medium s would pick up a pen and hold it over a pad of paper and independently, their arms would just start moving. And the person in spirit would dictate volumes of notes that didn’t come from the mind of the medium, Very often it contained information that the medium couldn’t possibly have known. That’s where we have descriptions and books have been written about the various afterlife realms, but, in hundreds and hundreds of readings, descriptions of the afterlife never come through from the mental mediums.
Johnny Burke: The book that you wrote, is important and I really agree a thousand percent that there should be some kind of regulatory body especially if there’s an instance of fraud. If you’re telling me, and you’re not the only person that’s told me this, that these certification programs- only 10 to 15% actually gets certified? That means there’s an entire body of people out there that, some are frauds, but some are just not well enough developed. They shouldn’t be practicing.
Robert Ginsberg: Yeah. And you brought it up briefly at the beginning of the show, what the people call psychic mediums. Sometimes, people are very good at bringing through psychic information. So when we’re evaluating a medium and the medium isn’t not talking about anybody in spirit, but the medium says, “Hey, Bob, did you just paint your bedroom blue?” and let’s say I did. I would say, “wow” how did you know? That’s extraordinary in itself, but it doesn’t prove an afterlife. It has nothing to do with people in spirit. It’s mind to mind from two living entities, picking out information, and giving it to me.
In order for a piece of information to be scored, first you have to identify the person by evidence that you’re communicating with. Then, if you say, ” your mom’s telling me she likes that you just painted your bedroom blue.” Then I can accept that as a strong piece of information because you’ve identified the source. I would disagree that all mediums are accomplished evidential psychics, because I’ve been in situations where I was working with a researcher who was measuring brainwaves of mediums to see what was going on when they were involved in spirit communication.
I suggested as a control, we should also measure the brainwaves while they were engaged in psychic exercises, and not connected to, to see if there was a difference. And when we used, Zener Cards, which were developed by JB Ryan back in the forties. Just geometric shapes on cards and the medium would guess, or the psychic would guess what cards coming up next. It was an informal study- nothing specifically that was published or cited, but my observation was that some of these mediums were all certified by the foundation. I knew they were world-class mediums that scored, average or below average when they were engaged in a psychic exercise. I don’t think that you can make the jump saying just because they’re a great evidential medium, that they’re also a great evidential psychic.
Johnny Burke: So that’s one thing you definitely cleared out for a lot of us, because I’ve been told slightly different. When someone goes to see a psychic, they might not have mediumistic abilities. They might be able to do the mind-to-mind thing, that doesn’t mean that they can communicate with the dead.
Robert Ginsberg: Right. you could be a wonderful, wonderful superstar, psychic, but seems to be a different subset of skill want to call it a skill, to be able to communicate with a discarnate entity.
Johnny Burke: Great stuff, Robert. Thanks for joining us today. How can our listeners find out more about you and the forever family foundation?
Robert Ginsberg: The website is www.foreverfamilyfoundation.org. We have over 11,000 members, worldwide membership is free. We have different webinars and grief retreats, various services and recommended books, the medium certification program, we have a radio show that we air every Thursday and, the book is called the medium explosion and if somebody wants to contact me, my email is firstname.lastname@example.org