Johnny Burke: Welcome to Closer to Venus. I’m Johnny Burke. Today, Gail and Gregory Hoag are joining us. They are both researchers and authors of Sacred Geometry, The Universal Language of Divine Alignment. Their work has produced groundbreaking technologies and discoveries. In this episode, we will discuss sacred geometry, what it is, and its role in the evolution of consciousness. Gail and Gregory, welcome to the show.
Gail & Gregory Hoag: Thank you Johnny. Great to be with you. It is. Thank you for having us
Johnny Burke: Indeed. So sacred geometry. How did you find yourself on this path of discovery, and what is your understanding of that?
Gail & Gregory Hoag: Well, you know, for me it really started as an artist looking out around in nature wanting to understand the universe. I was just absolutely inspired by the work of Buckminster Fuller who had a geometric perspective on all of this, and that’s kind of what got me into it. And I loved the old ancient architecture that showed how ancient civilizations used sacred geometry to create structures that would support people in being able to connect with those higher realms of consciousness.
Johnny Burke: Is that related to the golden ratio or is that something different?
Gail & Gregory Hoag: No, totally. You’re right, Johnny. The golden ratio was used by so many different cultures, especially the Greeks, who gave it that name, and it was in much of their architecture because it reflected the way things grow organically. So they brought that into their architecture. And in a way, what it does is it creates relationships for people in the architecture to relate to life and the way things grow and plants, animals, and human beings.
I was building sacred geometric forms, and I had no idea there was anything like sacred geometry. I didn’t know the platonic solids. I was propelled into this realm by going through something called Kundalini back in the late seventies, 1980. It was after about a decade of working with different spiritual masters. I built a pyramid with a friend, and we were sleeping in it. And this pyramid, in today’s dollars, even though it was only 10 feet high, it would cost probably close to a quarter million dollars to build now because we had so many large crystals and things in it, and it got this energy flowing in me and this energy called Kundalini is actually, the earth energy reaching back through the body up to higher self.
So, it catalyzed a lot of scenes on higher-dimensional levels. I started building what I was seeing. The energy that comes into physical matter follows particular patterns, cycles, and archetypes, and I was building those archetypes, and people were feeling energy when they were around them.
And that’s how Gail and I connected because I shared that box of forms with her. And she was working with, channeling Bucky Fuller at the time, and said,” Do you know him? And I said, no, I don’t know much of anything. I’m just building these things.” And she felt the energy and that started our journey together
In our first few years, we also started to find out who the masters of sacred geometry were who were alive today, had opportunities to study with them, and saw that it wasn’t just a structural thing; there was a spiritual content to all of it, too. That was a very important part of it because it was about consciousness for us to want to be involved in this and to make our contribution.
Johnny Burke: Now, Greg, you just mentioned, a pyramid a moment ago. I can’t help but ask, does this have anything to do with how sacred geometry might be related to the pyramids in ancient cultures all over the world, or is that something completely different?
Gail & Gregory Hoag: No, it’s something, you’re right, Johnny. Totally the same. I mean, all of the pyramids that have been built on the planet, even their locations. There have been studies where there are locations often related to each other in PHI ratio dimensions, but the pyramids themselves, like the Great Pyramid at Giza, its face , can be broken down into PHI ratio relationships. There are actually indentations on the point of the pyramid at Giza, which breaks the points into 32 degrees, which again is an important angle that is working with phi ratio energy. And then, the square base is putting the energy, grounding it into the earth. The pyramids, Stonehedge, and many of the ancient churches, they’re all follow sacred geometric principles.
Johnny Burke: And they also had no contact with each other, thousands of years ago that we know of. That’s what I always thought was interesting. Going back to the Kundalini, you had a Kundalini awakening, which is around, I believe it was 79 or 1980. What kind of things did you see that most people don’t really see?
Gail & Gregory Hoag: At first, it was not a comfortable experience. I was reliving past lives and recognizing people from different perspectives of what went on hundreds of years prior. I was communicating with energies and beings in a sense that I was totally disconnected from my body. At times, it felt very schizophrenic, what I imagined schizophrenia to be like, where I didn’t have crosshairs as far as time and space, I was kind of cut free and it took me years to start to balance the energy again so that I didn’t feel, so out of connection with reality.
I had energy, like photon energy, moving through my body, through the chakras in both hands and the middle of both feet, and it was moving through so strongly that I literally had holes being burned in my flesh just from the energy going through. And I thought, you know, this is subtle energy and it’s not feeling so subtle. I mean, it’s pushing me around. And then I started communicating with. Being that were sharing information with me, and that was the journey that started me. was the beginning of this journey. Yes.
Johnny Burke: The photon energy has come up before in some of our interviews here. Is that something that can actually be scientifically measured for the skeptical scientific types, or not necessarily?
Gail & Gregory Hoag: Well, actually, a photon itself was imaged a few years ago by a couple of Polish scientists, and it has a geometry to it. And yes, there have been experiments where they found that living matter produces photons, and they’ve done experiments in Petri dishes where you can see cells from one Petri dish communicating with cells with another Petri dish through photons that exchange light. By placing glass in between or placing. Quartz crystal is in between because quartz blocks the movement of photons.
And so within the body, they’ve measured it, and they’ve taken cells out of a body and put it in a room where there is no other energy coming in. It’s a faraday cage. Where they can block out electromagnetic frequencies because that’s what a photon is. It’s a carrier for all the energy in the entire energy spectrum, and they can put organic living material in a room. It starts producing photons seemingly out of nowhere. And if you take that organic sample away, the photons will remain for weeks and weeks being generated in that space, in that room.
Johnny Burke: Let’s talk a bit about past lives, which you mentioned a few moments ago. I’m curious if you recognize anyone from any of those lives who is alive today?
Gail & Gregory Hoag: Yes. Mm-Hmm. And, I got into that for a while, kind of like a party game, and then I started realizing it wasn’t serving me or others. Sometimes, people would recognize that it would clue them into a bigger part of their lives, but I started realizing I was here for an opportunity to share this information about sacred geometry. So I stopped doing that. I stopped looking for that.
There are a lot of things where I felt I could get caught up in something that wouldn’t serve me spiritually. So that’s really what it came down to. If a past life happened to be related to something going on in my life at the moment where I could learn from it, where it could help me grow, then I would interact. But for the most part, it’s important to be present. It’s important to be focused. So that’s what I worked on.
Johnny Burke: The past lives were, I take it a byproduct of the Kundalini awakening, right?
Gail & Gregory Hoag: Yes,
Johnny Burke: Overall, did that experience teach you more about sacred geometry?
Gail & Gregory Hoag: The experience opened me up to the way energy works and seeing patterns. I can often see things when someone describes something; I see it in pictures and see the words. It was just the gift that higher realms offered me that I could tune in and see the pattern behind the archetype of something growing or some energy or the way that consciousness works in certain ways.
Johnny Burke: Excellent. Gail, you mentioned something about channeling. How did you start channeling, when did it start, and what have you learned from it?
Gail & Gregory Hoag: Hmm, good questions. I had a near-death experience back when I was in my late teens, and that kind of changed my whole perspective about life and death. I saw myself going down a tunnel and so I realized that there was a lot more than what’s in this physical experience. So that kind of kicked me off in my journey as an artist and in things that I was doing because I always felt I was a very intuitive person. So it was starting to give me more and more of those clues. Through just working to evolve consciousness meditation, I believe that when someone passes, their consciousness is still available to connect with, and what I can do is open myself up to experience that communication. So that’s basically what I started to do.
It was pretty much just connecting in self-taught and realizing that I was getting information and that information was valuable. And my, way of looking at it is do something that has meaning and purpose. So if you’re going to do it, do something that has something that I can do with it.
That’s why, for instance, with Bucky Fuller I was doing channeling before that, which basically I would just experience as my higher guidance. With his information, I really wanted to learn more because I was fascinated with his work and had read all of his books and seen him lecture. So I started getting these sessions with him and they were getting so scientific, and I don’t have a math and science background. At that point. I just said, wait a minute, this is way too much for me. Either bring this down or send me somebody that I can do something with. And what happened was Greg and I found each other probably within about two weeks after that request.
Johnny Burke: Interesting. The near-death experience is obviously, very, very important in the realm of the unseen and the mystical worlds that a lot of us do like to explore. Can we assume that after that experience there was an increase or an uptick in maybe psychic activity or just awareness of things that were not there before the experience?
Gail & Gregory Hoag: Definitely,
Johnny Burke: The channeling happened before that or after that.
Gail & Gregory Hoag: After.
Johnny Burke: Okay.
Gail & Gregory Hoag: I think that it’s important to realize that what that opened me up to was understanding that I was much more than what I was taught to believe that I was. That was congruent with when I was little, and I would feel like, how did I get here? I didn’t feel like I really belonged. So, it was part of my longing to understand who I am. What is this experience of life? What is my consciousness about? So, the seeds were always there, but my experiences were helping me to figure it out more, become attuned to it, and do something with it.
Johnny Burke: Bucky Fuller; for those of us who don’t know who or what that is and how it’s relevant to your discovery with the sacred geometry, can you tell us a little bit about that??
Gail & Gregory Hoag: Yeah. Well, Buckminster Fuller, an amazing genius, wrote lots of books. He’s the one who created the geodesic dome. And so he was exploring how Universe works and finding very different ways of working. A lot of his information was based on looking at the tetrahedron, which is a three-dimensional triangle. He would have all these different diagrams, and even though they were very mathematical and scientific- he was also an engineer. He always would say that if I can’t explain this to a child, I’m somehow missing this. Intrinsically, we understand these things and, so, that’s kind of where I entered into it. Not as a scientist, but more just as a human being and as an artist too. It really spoke to me.
Johnny Burke: So we have a near-death experience, channeling, and a Kundalini experience as well. I imagine that could be a life-changing experience, anyway you look at it. Let’s talk a little bit about the higher realms. Gregory, you mentioned this earlier, and apparently, sacred geometry can help us access these higher dimensions. And if so, is that related to five D, which we hear a lot of chatter about these days, or is that something different?
Gail & Gregory Hoag: It does help us in the sense that when we look at how the universe works, how patterns, rhythms, and cycles form the sun, the moon, the earth, and their relationships with each other. These relationships often express themselves geometrically, and when we bring that geometry Into our environment. They start resonating like an antenna system and like a C tuning fork will resonate with a C tone, we can bring that resonance into our lives, which helps us connect to the bigger part of ourselves. Because we’re much like an iceberg where only the tip of the iceberg is seen, 90% of it is hidden under the water.
And for us as humans, only a small bit of a shows up in the physical dimension. For example, our emotional body hangs out in what we call the aura around the physical. People who can see the aura can often see what someone is going through emotionally through the colors, the thickness, and the movement of the pattern around the body.
When you brought up five G mean this is just another progression in the electromagnetic spectrum being filled up in our environment. Over a hundred years ago, when Rudolph Steiner, could see physical energies around the bodies and see the multidimensional nature of a human being, This was the man who put Waldorf schools together. He was quite an amazing being, and only 25 years after Nikolai Tesla lit up the World’s Fair, Rudolph Steiner was seeing problems in human beings, being able to connect to who they fully are, which is their full multidimensional nature.
So with 5G today, that’s interfering with that higher connection. Even more so. We’ve been getting progressively worse in the last hundred years as far as artificial ingredients, toxins, electromagnetic frequencies, and the full spectrum. The electromagnetic spectrum is getting filled up. The amount of fear that’s being shared electronically around the planet, what’s going on with stress in people. All these things keep us limited to the tip of the iceberg where our ego hangs out. But by working with sacred geometric forms like the ones that are next to me what happens and the pendants that we’re wearing is we can be more resonant with those higher dimensions.
What started Gail and I on this path has been deepened so much over the years by working with the tools that we’re building and it’s taken our intuition deeper. It’s allowed us to see more, go further into just being in that space of serendipity where you’re in the right place at the right time. You think of someone before they call, all of this kind of on the edge of spiritual awakening; it just gets deeper and deeper the more we work in that realm with these higher dimensional energies, which are brought in by the sacred geometric tools. That’s made a phenomenal difference in our lives as far as health and wellbeing. And it’s changed the lives of tens of thousands of people that we’ve worked with over the last 40 years that we’ve been involved in this
Johnny Burke: Can we also assume sacred geometry is a tool for better understanding universal energy and accessing higher realms, or is that something else?
Gail & Gregory Hoag: Absolutely. Understanding sacred geometry helps us understand who we are, what our potential is, and what this universe is. Everything is structured in a way that looks, from some perspectives, like a very random, crazy, chaotic universe. And yet it really is all one, and everything works with these rhythms, patterns, cycles, and precision. I think that it’s very important with sacred geometry to understand those relationships so we’re not just being tossed around by what’s going on out there. We are part of it. So the more that we connect with that, the more it helps us, as well as just being able to get into those harmonics. We are very distracted here on this planet and in this modern life.
So, the more we understand what’s underneath, what’s the foundation—and honestly, there is a foundation in everything in creation—the more we can see that there is a foundation, and that’s consciousness. Consciousness is love. When we really get the essence of that, we can turn our lives around and expand who we are.
Johnny Burke: Since you mentioned consciousness, the evolution of consciousness is something that many of us are trying to learn more about. Is the understanding of how using sacred geometry and understanding how energy, universal energy, actually works, can we explain the evolution of consciousness with that alone, or are there other components?
Gail & Gregory Hoag: Ah, w ell, which one of us wants to go with this one? Yeah, can the evolution of consciousness. You know, I feel like that’s what we’re really here for is to evolve consciousness and what an amazing time we’re in right now. Where energetically there’s a lot that’s catalyzing that journey. In order to evolve our consciousness, what’s important is that we understand that consciousness isn’t what’s going on in our brain; consciousness is what’s going on at levels. That the only way that we can evolve consciousness is to recognize that we are multidimensional beings. There are so many different things happening.
Our linear perspectives make us think that time is just a linear kind of experience. When we talk about past lives, if we look at time as not linear but as how it works in spirals and cycles, our brains can only isolate things in such a manner that we create illusions of linear experience. But when we go into higher-dimensional thinking, we see things, we feel things, and we express our lives very differently. And then consciousness is evolving to be a part of what universe is. Universe is amazing. You know, the exquisite nature of universe is just phenomenal
That’s one of the things with sacred geometry, it’s really taught me about that. It’s helped me reach out and recognize that, there have always been cultures that valued these higher levels of creativity and consciousness, and they were able to connect with whether, it’s extraterrestrial kinds of things or higher dimensional beings, what, whatever it is, there’s so much more of who we really are and the more that we realize and are able to, work with our ability to express ourselves at those levels, then we are not separate from creation. We are creation, and when we put our intention into positive ways, we can create our lives and create a universe in a magnificent way that exceeds any of our current expectations.
Johnny Burke: A good point you made about time, which I’ve heard on many occasions. One woman explained it like this: I don’t believe in past lives because they’re all happening at once. And in the NDE experience you had- the same thing happened. Everyone I’ve interviewed who had that type of experience said time over there is nothing like it is here. It doesn’t exist. And with our linear minds, I guess it’s really kind of hard to understand that but, you believe that with the understanding of sacred geometry, we can actually embody the power of the divine archetypes. What exactly is that and how is that done?
[Gail & Gregory Hoag: One of the things that Gail shared was that we are universe. And so some of these archetypes, when we bring them into the physical dimension through geometry, it’s possible to have an experience of an energy that is there at the base of reality. So by bringing that purity into our presence. We spend so much time, like I keep using that metaphor, the tip of the iceberg.
The ego doesn’t believe that anything exists beyond itself. It feels the limitation of everything because it’s living in a very limited perspective. But as we shift our consciousness by virtue of being stretched by some of these aspects of energy that are perhaps a little more pure in their essence. Like we can’t share in words that truth of existence. We just give, pointers toward it. In our human experience in the 3D physical. But when we start vibrating with some of those higher dimensional energies, expanding our consciousness is possible just to be more inclusive. And the more inclusive we are, the more we move toward that sense of unity of connection with everything. That is such a phenomenal experience for a human being to see that they are not, and they are, at the same time. It’s something that starts to break a lot of patterns inside our way of thinking, and so.
Consciousness is there in the first chapter of our book. That’s what we talk about because it’s what underlies everything. It’s infinite, and we try to use words like God and source, and yet, those are words that we tend to own. It’s like, my God works this way, and your God works that way. But consciousness, that’s the love that is supporting reality.
It’s there for us to keep discovering more and more and more about some of the aspects of the way we are created and the way everything is created and works. When you bring those in, it’s just like the purpose of the Freemasons who built the cathedrals in ancient parts of Europe. It was to bring people into an experience, experience that awe of what it is to be confronted with the divine, that there is a creator. And when you are in some of these spaces you can feel that reverence, you can feel that holiness. You can feel that energy and that can happen in our daily lives on almost an ongoing basis.
Johnny Burke: So in layman’s terms, much of what we’re talking about today has to do with finding a frequency or vibrating at that frequency to access higher realms of consciousness. Does that make sense?
Gail & Gregory Hoag: it does. Frequency is one of the parameters we can talk about because we think of everything in creation in the physical is really frequencies. When we think of the physical dimension, we don’t realize that the majority of it is pure energy. 99.99999% of science says it is pure physical energy. That energy has potential, and it expresses itself. It controls the physical dimension in the way things come together, the way things are built, and the way things work. So to think of that energy is a frequency. To hit the right frequency, to hit the right respective energetic pulse. You know, that’s what can raise our energy field.
Johnny Burke: And I think, since many people are talking about raising consciousness, raising our vibe, ascension, Can we assume that eventually we’re all going to be going in that direction? Some maybe sooner than others?
Gail & Gregory Hoag: You know, it, it, sure seems that we are in a very strong evolutionary path. And, another piece that I just want to put in perspective here is that everything starts out as pure raw energy. And that frequency is a very, very high frequency. Energy is always vibrating. And for it to come into physical it slows down, and it finds a way in very precise ways in these archetypes to create physical matter. Now, when we get locked into thinking that everything’s physical and that lower vibrational energy is where everything is, that becomes our limitation. When we raise our knowing and our consciousness to accept the full realm of what is, then we can start interacting with those higher levels of vibration. That’s where the creative energy really gets open to us to be able to participate in what this life really is and take it to a higher level. And the more that we raise our frequency to do that, the more we become divine co-creators, which is I believe who we really are.
I wanted to add Johnny that like you were saying, maybe some a little ahead of others. The point is for anyone who starts to open up to that, there’s really only one avenue left for them to express themselves, and that’s in service. It’s in service to all. Once you start realizing that we are connected, you start to realize that we have this obligation. This opportunity: obligation sounds like work, but it’s an opportunity to be of service to everyone to help them get more into that love that they are, get more into that frequency, that they can express the perfection of who they’ve come to be. You know, we’ve come with so many different opportunities and attributes, each one of us, and it fulfills the whole by each of us being the perfect human being that we can be right now.
This is a journey that is almost on an infinite scale because we talk about people opening up. Still, the level of consciousness that we’re working with in this reality is only a level of love and understanding of unity that’s a couple steps above stones and one step above plants and animals where human beings are in this third density, which is a different way of understanding consciousness than saying the third dimension. I’m actually saying consciousness moves in densities and that’s where we’re going to be spending millions of years studying another level of unity, and then there’s other levels after that. It keeps growing and growing until there’s nothing left. But being in that oneness that we all are.
Johnny Burke: The oneness, which means there is no separation. Separation is an
Gail & Gregory Hoag: illusion,correct.Totally.
Johnny Burke: Okay Can you tell us a little bit more about the groundbreaking technologies that you’ve discovered? I imagine they will help us utilize sacred geometry.
Gail & Gregory Hoag: Okay, I will let you answer that. Okay. We have geometries, physical geometries that we’ve worked out like this, and this geometry, by the way, is something that reflects the number of degrees in it are equal to the diameter of the moon, plus the diameter of the earth in miles. So miles translating into degrees in the same number creates a harmonic. Then we take geometries like this, and we’re able to look at it from different perspectives and project that into something that I’m wearing as a pendant around my neck. It has two sides because one side moves the energy up, the other side moves the energy down. Because we’re like a large donut of energy -Taurus. Each chakra gets affected by the pendant, by the geometries that we have that spin. Also, when you work with the different relationships on the sides, it works with the PHI ratio, just the way the moon and the earth work with the PHI ratio that creates all of life.
So by wearing a pendant like this, it shifts the energy that’s going into people so they can rise to a higher level. They can see things from a higher perspective, and it shifts the energy coming out of them that shifts their reality. For example, one grandmother told me what she loves about the pendant is that her grandkids used to run away from her, but now when she has the pendant, they crawl all over her because they’re attracted to the energy.
A prison guard told me how much better his prisoners treat him- the people that he’s guarding and when he has a pendant on. Because his energy field shifts and his ability to communicate shifts, and I’ve seen that with teachers and lawyers, lawyers put some of these tools in there because they find when they bring people there to discuss things, they don’t yell at each other as much anymore. They communicate better. So the energy shift and that intuition that seems to be there in the animal kingdom . We talk about in our book this little bird that knows more about what’s going to happen with hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico, and it leaves at the right time to avoid them. And it’s been proven that it does a better job than NASA can do at predicting hurricanes.
That’s written away as instinct, but that’s a level of connection to that oneness that human beings also have that opportunity, and it’s a matter of opening up that level of connection and then that information can flow into us. What we started out at, Gale and I, is so much deeper with our understanding, which is why it took us 40 years to write our book because after that time, things started fitting together where we went; oh, this is why we’ve been building them like this and doing that because this is the way the universe works.
Johnny Burke: My gut feeling about this without actually seeing it, but what you’re describing in terms of discovery and technologies, could this be that this type of technology existed thousands of years ago in ancient civilizations?
Gail & Gregory Hoag: Definitely. And. I love some of these archeological explorations that can go back over 10,000 years. And they’re finding these structures that show us that these civilizations use these same principles. I think that we’re going to keep finding more and more of that and realize that this is inherent in who we are. It’s in our inner knowing. It’s up to us in our connections now to bring it forward.
Johnny Burke: And by connections that includes. The activity we hear a lot about, including channeling group consciousness, is another way of trying to find answers rather than what we read in history books because it seems like knowledge like this and related discoveries could, at one point, rewrite civilization’s history.
Gail & Gregory Hoag: Yeah, I wanted to add one thing to that, what you asked before, and that is that there has been now archeological research that pushes back the date of a lot of this knowledge to 9,600 years when the last pieces of a comet struck the earth at the northern hemisphere and melted a lot of the ice cap and flooded the earth with, a large rise in ocean, levels. Many of the numbers that we find- we talk about this in our book, many of the numbers, many of the patterns are really shared all over the world. As you were suggesting, pyramids are very similar, and it points to a field of knowledge that was shared with all of the survivors of this cataclysm almost 10,000 years ago where they are working with the same bits of knowledge from Asia to South America to Europe and (Mexico) Yes. All around the world similar numbers and similar patterns are reflecting a coherent base of knowledge that existed perhaps for many thousands of years during what we consider the ice age.
Johnny Burke: Well, very interesting stuff, guys. thanks for joining us. I have a feeling that we might have a part two at some time in the future, but in the meantime, how can our listeners find you online?
Gail and Gregory Hoag: You can find us at Iconnect2 all.com, the letter I, the word connect, the number two, the word all A l l.com. If they put a slash chapter at the end of that, they can also download the first chapter of our book about consciousness as a free gift.
Thanks for tuning in, and we’ll see you next time.