#191 Rob Gutro Paranormal Investifgations and Mediumship
Johnny Burke: Welcome to Closer to Venus. I’m Johnny Burke, and today’s guest is Rob Gutro. He is a paranormal investigator and medium with inspired ghost tracking of Maryland. He’s also the author of Ghosts and Spirits, Pets in the Afterlife and Ghosts on a Medium’s Vacation. As a meteorologist, he also provides a scientific explanation about how energy is the baseline for the afterlife. And the medium that entities use to communicate. In this episode, we will discuss communication beyond the Veil. Rob, welcome to the program,
Rob Gutro: Thank you Johnny. It’s good to be here.
Johnny Burke: Ghosts on a Medium’s Vacation. That sounds really interesting, but first of all, your work is a meteorologist; how does that connect to, and otherwise give you insight into the afterlife?
Rob Gutro: It really helps because I’m able to explain a lot of the afterlife, through the science of energy, particularly the law of conservation of energy, which states that energy can’t be destroyed, only transformed, and our physical energies become either a ghost or a spirit.
Johnny Burke: So Ghost or a spirit. I had a conversation recently with a woman that told me she didn’t believe in ghosts, but she believes in spirits. So what do you suppose is the difference?
Rob Gutro: I’ve posited is that when we die, we make a choice and we either choose to stay earthbound at a fixed location that we are familiar with or where we passed, and that’s what I call a ghost. Spirits are the ones that cross over into the light on the other side- paradise and whatever you want to call it. So there’s a difference and they each have similarities and they have differences, in terms of energy and the ability to communicate.
Johnny Burke: That’s the first time I’ve heard that it’s a choice for us that we can remain tied to the earth and be an earthbound ghost or move on into the light where hopefully there’s rivers of Cabernet and beautiful women and free concerts to see Prince and John Lennon and so forth.
Rob Gutro: And no Mondays.
Johnny Burke: No, Mondays. Yeah. That’s one thing I’m going to try and manifest when the time comes Tuesday through Sunday, but no, Mondays. How did you discover that we make a choice at that point?
Rob Gutro: It’s through communication with people who have passed on. Including my own relatives, my mother and father had both passed on. And by doing paranormal investigations with, earthbound ghosts that choose to haunt places, they will give me reasons why they stayed. And then they will usually ask for help to cross over and they regret staying.
Johnny Burke: They do regret staying. Okay. That’s good info for those of us who are thinking, I don’t know why anyone would want to stay, but I’ve never been in that space, at least not that I remember. You mentioned that you’ve had contact with spirits that have passed over, including your family. What is it like for a human to be able to make contact with someone who’s crossed over?
Rob Gutro: Well, gosh, it’s pretty incredible and frankly, the first time for me when I was a teenager was frightening when my grandfather appeared to me. And anybody who tells you that it’s not, is not telling the truth.
Johnny Burke: I would imagine it’s probably terrifying,
Rob Gutro: It was, yeah. but it is rewarding once you get comfortable with it and then you listen to what they have to say, or you recognize the signs they’re trying to give you to let you know that they’re okay in spirit. And that’s what both my parents have done.
Johnny Burke: Okay, so have you had contact with spirits that were famous people or politicians or anything like that? I
Rob Gutro: Yeah, there’d been a couple of them. Uh, John Wilkes Booth was a ghost that I had encountered at Ford’s Theater in Washington, DC . He was a very nasty man in death as he was in life. A couple of figures in England; Queen Catherine, Henry VIII’s fourth wife, who is eternally bound to Hampton Court Palace, begging for the, king to spare her life because she was beheaded. and she continues to run through the palace. She’s seen by a lot of people actually.
Johnny Burke: Do they often ask for help to go to the light, to go to the other side? Or do they sometimes not know better?
Rob Gutro: Sometimes they don’t know better. Like Queen Catherine when she was beheaded, she continues to run down the same hallway in various fashions, hoping that she can change the outcome of being trapped as a ghost and get her life back, which is really odd because obviously as an earthbound ghost, you see how fashions change when people visit the castle. So, she knows the time has passed, but there is no concept of time on the other side.
Johnny Burke: Which I’ve heard many, many times, so it’s not like they feel the hours and days and weeks or even years. it’s all happening at once. Does that make sense?
Rob Gutro: Yeah, it’s really hard to imagine how it is to be an earthbound ghost, but I look at them as a ball of energy with a consciousness, just like a light bulb. They sit dormant until someone brings energy in to allow them to communicate, whether it’s emotional energy or physical energies like heat, light, water, and electricity.
Johnny Burke: I bring that up because a woman that I interviewed a while back, Suzanne Munson, hired a medium, that had produced evidential findings to her and some of her friends to channel Thomas Jefferson. I remember one of the questions he was, queried on what he thought about spirit and God and everything, and he said that, Christ is available for anyone. But not so much in churches. And I’m thinking either that’s the real thing or that’s a playful spirit that’s just like trying to toy with us. So, you’ve seen both the good and the not so good spirits, like John Wilkes Booth. What was that like? I mean, was he cursing or was he just scary?
Rob Gutro: He was boastful, and he was arrogant, and it was really a difficult energy to deal with. I didn’t know who it was, to be honest with you. It was in the gift shop of, the Ford’s Theater. The gift shop is where, the alleyway was in which he escaped after he assassinated President Lincoln. but he chose to stay there because, and he chose to stay behind for two reasons. Number one, he feared going on the other side because he may go to a bad place, and number two, he chose that theater because he said that was the site of his greatest achievement in his life. So even in death as an earthbound ghost, he did not show remorse. He was still as terrifying and horrible a person as he was in life.
Johnny Burke: You are also a paranormal investigator and a medium, it’s not every day that we see that combination. I would imagine that the mediumistic ability came first, or not necessarily. How did that happen?
Rob Gutro: It did. It came when I was 13 and once 2005 came around, I had a puppy that passed away. he was tragically killed by a car at seven months old, and he reawakened my abilities. He taught me how pets communicate from the afterlife. As someone who likes to write everything. I wrote it down, became the briefs for my first book. My dad died. During that time when I was writing that. So I had both human and animal examples of how spirits communicate. I gave a lecture to the paranormal group, and they asked me to be the medium on their team. And that’s how it all came about.
Johnny Burke: Okay. That’s the team in Maryland. Right?
Rob Gutro: That’s correct,
Johnny Burke: Right. Okay, I was about to say that you are known as a pet medium,
Rob Gutro: Yes.
Johnny Burke: I was about to ask why pets are not people, but I think you just explained that. I don’t really know if there’s as many animal communicators as mediums, but I think they are starting to catch up. Do you feel that it’s becoming more and more popular?
Rob Gutro: I do. I actually distinguish between a pet medium and an animal communicator because I don’t have the ability to communicate with live animals. So I call that an animal communicator in my mind. I’m a pet medium. I only communicate with pets that passed. But yes, and when I published my first Pets in the afterlife book out of the four that are out, then the markets started getting flooded with pets in the afterlife books.
Johnny Burke: I’ve met a couple on here, which I think is interesting. One woman told me she was working with a client and the pet communicated to her that the pet was once a human, that this woman knew. So have you ever seen anything like that where pets can have past lives just like we can, and they can go from human to animal and maybe back?
Rob Gutro: Yes and no. Yes, I’ve seen pets, connect with us in different lives, but they stay in the animal kingdom and no, they’ve never communicated that they were ever human in any form.
Johnny Burke: Okay.
Rob Gutro: I do make it a jest to that if you look over and see, your coworker licking their hand, they may have been a cat in a previous life, but,
Johnny Burke: It doesn’t mean it’s impossible, it’s just that you’ve never seen it.
Rob Gutro: No, and you know, we certainly don’t know the answers,
Johnny Burke: But you know, a lot of them though, if you’ve seen John Wilkes booth in the gift shop, he’s lurking, I can’t imagine not thinking doesn’the feel kind of creepy? I mean, in a gift shop of all places.
Rob Gutro: True. So, the reason he was there is not only was it the site of the alleyway where he escaped, but he always appears in front of a display of John Wilkes Booth things, souvenirs.
Johnny Burke: Oh,
Rob Gutro: Two other mediums that I know went there and called me and said that there’s some man here who’s very arrogant and hateful. And they said, do you have any idea who this is? And I said, “oh yeah, tell me where you are.” And sure enough, they were both at different times. They were both in front of that display.
Johnny Burke: And you’ve seen visuals of him as well?
Rob Gutro: I see visuals in my mind for the most part.
Johnny Burke: That’s enough though.
Rob Gutro: Yeah.
And then I sketch them out in my books.
Johnny Burke: That’s an interesting story. Anything else other than John Wilkes Booth that really stands out, in your experiences?
Rob Gutro: gosh, yes. When, George Boleyn the brother of, queen Anne Boleyn another wife of Henry VIII when we went to Heaver Castle the UK visiting. The minute I walked in, I heard a man’s voice, and he said, “my name is George.” And I looked at my partner, I said, “who would George be in here?” and he said, “oh that would be George Boleyn who grew up here. This is the Boleyn family home. George Boleyn wound up walking us through Heaver castle and giving us a guided tour of things that happened in various rooms, providing dates for his, significant dates, and childhood memories. And when I got home, I proved all of these things and it’s fascinating.
Johnny Burke: But again, you didn’t see visually ; it was like in your mind’s eye, or was it not like that?
Rob Gutro: No, that’s correct. I did not see him visually, but I saw him well enough to sketch him out.
Johnny Burke: That qualifies as clairvoyance, doesn’t it? Being able to see visions like that. Okay. I thought to be clairvoyant you had to see the image right in front of you, but that’s not necessarily true. great. So, George Boleyn, that’s an interesting one as well. Being that you’re a medium, that obviously is going to give you a lot more insight into the spirit world. but what about past lives? Since you brought up time stands still, or it does not exist in that realm.
Rob Gutro: Sure. So past lives, are when we come back , we come back as somebody different, but we’re all connected to the same people that we knew in a previous life. Sometimes these past lives will come through to us. We can figure that out if we are drawn to a certain place at a certain time. So, for instance, I was drawn to the Old West as a kid, I always was fascinated by cowboys, and I had no idea. About what the old West really was.
When I visited the town of Tombstone for the very first time, I had a past life experience and it was kind of unnerving because the minute I walked into the town, a tourist had come up to me and asked me where the courthouse was. she thought that I was a reenactor because I decided to go to see Tombstone dressed up as Wyatt Earp with a friend dressed up as Doc Holiday to make it more fun. because we had seen the movie the year
Johnny Burke: Definitely.
Rob Gutro: So she, yeah, so she thought I worked there, but, she came up to me and asked me who the courthouse was and I gave her the exact directions. You know, two blocks down, one block take a left, one block down, take a right, and it’s on the left hand side. And my friend looked at me and said, “what in the world did you do?” So he said,” we’ve never been here.” It’s a dot on a map. This was 1994, by the way. It was no internet, no phone, nothing.
Johnny Burke: Right. It’s not like you had your iPhone there, right? Yeah.
Rob Gutro: Sure. So, we followed my direction and sure enough, that’s where the courthouse was. And he said, “how did you know that?” And it wasn’t until many, many years later that I realized I lived there before .
Johnny Burke: In that moment when you gave directions, did you have a glimpse into how you knew that, or did it just not occur to you?
Rob Gutro: It did not occur to me. I did do a past life regression later and I learned that I lived in the town as a min a silver miner, and I had a hound dog and I lived in a shack, which makes perfect sense.
Johnny Burke: When you work with clients, I take it past lives do come up sometimes, or not really ?
Rob Gutro: It does not, because I only really work with pets in spirit.
Johnny Burke: Okay, so you don’t really work with humans. It’s basically just pets these days?
Rob Gutro: Yeah, I don’t do medium readings for humans but I do go on paranormal investigations and investigate earthbound human ghosts. I just don’t want to deal with the spirits on the other side, because people have too many hangups, you know?
Johnny Burke: You know what, that’s in direct contrast to what some people think is over there. It’s all light, it’s all good, it’s all joy. That’s not what I’ve been told.
Rob Gutro: So, it is peaceful and once we cross over, we understand that our behavior here was wrong. And a lot of people who have crossed over want to ask for forgiveness and so forth from their loved ones. They have an awakening about their bad behavior on earth if they cross over. Ghosts don’t get that awakening because they didn’t cross over. The last reading that was the end of the line for me was a man that came in, a father figure who was abusive physically, sexually, he was an alcoholic. He would beat his daughter. It was a horrible thing for me to try and convey this to somebody I didn’t even know. And I just said that’s it. I will never read people again.
Johnny Burke: I don’t blame you.
Rob Gutro: Go for the pets.
Johnny Burke: I’ve been told that the medium readings can be draining. I don’t really get the people that think. Oh, there’s no evil spirits. And I’m thinking, you must not be that experienced. Just about everyone else has told me something different. That you have to protect yourself. You have to have boundaries and things like that. Do you have to do that with the pets as well? Because if you don’t, there’s a risk of low vibrational beings coming through or.
Rob Gutro: I do readings via email just looking at a picture of a pet tuning into their energy, so I don’t have any issues with that. I just connect directly to the pet. But if you’re on paranormal investigations and you’re investigating a haunting with earthbound ghosts, yes, you do have to protect yourself.
Johnny Burke: Can you share, how you do that?
Rob Gutro: So there are various ways. One of the ways that you can protect yourself is to imagine that you’re surrounded by a cocoon of white light, positive energy. Sometimes, one of our paranormal team managers recommends eating chocolate because it raises your endorphins and makes you feel good inside. And that generates positive emotional energy as a barrier. Sometimes we may reach out to a tree on a property because trees can be grounding because their roots are in the soil and you try to ground yourself. . We always recommend after a paranormal investigation taking a shower because water energy purifies the body and helps release any negative energy.So, there are a number of ways.
Johnny Burke: Chocolate. That’s incredible. I knew I liked chocolate.
Rob Gutro: Isn’t that great?
Johnny Burke: Yeah, I put in my smoothies. I put in my coffee and. Well, now I have a good excuse to eat chocolate almost every day. Thanks for that. And I’m sure people that are listening are going to thank you for that as well.
Great. so, we talked about past lives for a bit. Has your experience as a medium or as an investigator given you insight into life between lives?
Rob Gutro: So we typically wait for everybody that we know in this life to cross over before we come back. That includes pets.
Johnny Burke: That’s really important. I’ve never heard that, but it makes sense. So in other words, when I cross over, I cannot come back here, or I choose not to come back here until everybody I know has then crossed over?
Rob Gutro: Generally that’s the case. I mean, there are exceptions. There was a World War II pilot, that had passed during Pearl Harbor, and he came back as a little boy, and the little boy had his memories. There was a famous book, I can’t remember the name of the book.
Johnny Burke: I can’t remember the name, but I know who you’re talking about. He went to a gathering of guys that he was in the same company with, and they were like in their nineties, and he’s like eight. And he knew all their histories.
Rob Gutro: Yes.
Johnny Burke: It’s It is pretty amazing.
Rob Gutro: So that was an exception, but generally we all wait until our loved ones, that we’re connected to in this life, all pass over. I’ve had that same experience with pets too, with my own pets. My last dog who passed was about to pass that evening when I was laying on the bed in the kitchen with her, I saw my parents and our friend Ed and our three dogs waiting for her in the corner of the kitchen. And it was astounding. They were there for about 10 seconds. When that vision faded, I knew that they were waiting for her and because it was her time. But I texted a friend of mine, Ruth Larkin, she’s known as the Beantown medium, and I just said,” Dolly passed today”, and she said, “it’s okay, Rob, because your mom and dad were there and some guy I don’t recognize, and they were three dogs.” So she identified exactly the vision that I saw.
Johnny Burke: And that reminds me of a bedside visitation like in hospice when people start talking to the husband or the wife or people that have otherwise passed over. And it happens a lot. And that is the greeting committee. They’re there to help them cross over.
Rob Gutro: Yes, absolutely. when my friend Maureen’s father was dying in the hospital and she was there visiting him. He was talking to her mother who had passed 20 years before.
Johnny Burke: Mm-Hmm.
I remember when our mom passed. My sister was there by the bed and Mom started saying something like,” daddy, would you like more wine?”. So Mary Lou says, “mom, who are you talking to? ” it’s daddy”. You know a lot of people are going to look at that very skeptically. But over the years, when I’ve heard the same type of thing over and over again, and even in that case, that kind of dialogue can sometimes start as much as six months before crossing over. I did remember also talking to a medium that worked in hospice and for me, that was more confirmation than anything because obviously with that type of ability, you’re able to sense a lot more.Would you agree?
Rob Gutro: I absolutely agree.
Johnny Burke: Yeah, you probably see it all the time. Speaking of crossing over, I do believe that you are able to help some of these earthbound spirits crossover. Do you wait for them to ask, or do you just say, you should get out of here. This is lame. Look, it’s going to be light, it’s going to be cool , your buddies are there and you’ll be forgiven anyway.
Rob Gutro: Well, kind of both. I mean, every instance is different. If a ghost will give us the request, which will pick up using digital recorders, often they say, “help me.” And what they want help with is to cross over because they realize they’ve been stuck there for a long time by watching things change around them. Sometimes we have to actually help convince them. It’s kind of a sales pitch. When you go into a home where a family has just purchased an old home and there is a ghost there, who is tormenting children, for instance, I’ve been there many times. We have to convince the ghost to cross over on the other side. And we do that by pooling emotional energies, to open a portal and calling their relatives. In spirit to help us.
Johnny Burke: That’s wild. And you just mentioned you can pick up voices with a digital recorder.
Rob Gutro: Mm-Hmm.
Johnny Burke: That’s got to give you goosebumps,
Rob Gutro: So it does, because we use digital recorders, because digital recorders record at different frequencies than humans can hear. By the way pets can hear a different frequency. So that’s why they can hear spirits, and they have a different configuration in their eyes, the cones and rods in their eyes so they can see spirits because they move at a faster vibration. But yes, digital recorders are very helpful. I have to tell you, Johnny, in one instance there was a message on a digital recorder directed to me that was kind of unnerving.
Johnny Burke: Okay.
Rob Gutro: After this investigation in this Cockey’s tavern in Maryland, I felt very uncomfortable in this particular room. There was a man, there was a ghost earthbound, and I didn’t want to stay. And when I got home, the manager called me, played the recording, and it said, “kill Rob”, and I just said, “I’m not going back.”
Johnny Burke: Yeah, that’s not a happy camper. I’ve also been told by intuitive types that eventually we all go home. We all eventually cross over, It might take some longer than others, but do you think eventually that does happen?
Rob Gutro: I do and the reason I do is that even though Ghosts are Earthbound, they realize time passes and they’re stuck. And the only ones that can communicate are mediums if they’re lucky enough to get one who comes in. If they happen to be in a location where someone passes away that’s close by and the light opens for them, they can actually cross over whether they’re in a hospital ,prison.
Johnny Burke: The light has to open up for them, so that means it might not exist where they are,
Rob Gutro: That’s very true. Using the science of energy and the school of thought of energy, I’ve figured out why they get stuck. If you think of a ghost, an earthbound ghost as energy like a battery, over time that charge in that battery wears down and when it wears down past a certain point, they cannot open the doorway to the other side.
Johnny Burke: Because their energy just gets dimmer over time?
Rob Gutro: It does.
Johnny Burke: Okay. Like a light bulb it eventually it burns out. Right. So, you’re doing an honorable service by helping these spirits cross over. It doesn’t sound like it’s a task for the meek, obviously. You got have the stomach for it. Let’s go back to the afterlife and the spirit world. You’ve done a lot of work in that realm- are there indeed levels in the spirit world?
Rob Gutro: Great question. Yes. My own aunt helped me prove that. From what I can see or guess there are at least three levels on the other side. My aunt had put herself in the lowest level because she wanted to get forgiveness from my mother. My mother and aunt had a love-hate sister relationship all throughout their entire lives. And my aunt before she died, asked for forgiveness and my mother never got to say anything before my aunt died. and then my aunt kept coming back to me and finally I was able to get my mother to forgive her. My aunt sent me a sign, a musical sign, to confirm that she has moved up one level.
Johnny Burke: Do you get, to choose what level you go to? Or are you basically assigned a level based on your frequency or what rate you’re vibrating on? Does that make sense?
Rob Gutro: Yeah, It does. I think that you choose your own level really based on your own life experiences. If you think that you’ve done some bad things in life and you don’t deserve to be at a higher level, then you put yourself where you are. It’s like a self-assessment test.
Johnny Burke: Right, because I’ve heard that people that have life reviews, during a near death experience, they make it sound like someone is communicating with them, not verbally of course, but communicating with them as if to say, how do you think you did? the spirit, the soul is actually judging itself rather than being judged. You find the same thing?
Rob Gutro: Yes, absolutely.
Johnny Burke: So, in that space though, the in-between space, you know, it’s been called a lot of names. Someone might call it the bardo or there might be several levels of that. Some people call it the healing space or maybe it is heaven, I’m not really sure. But, is that true where we actually choose our soul family and our parents, and then we assign ourselves a task, what we want to learn when we come down here. Then of course we come down here and we forget everything.
Rob Gutro: That’s true. until something triggers an awareness like Tombstone did with me,
Johnny Burke: Right. Okay.
Rob Gutro: I don’t know if we choose our soul family. I’ve never had that experience, but I do know that we all are connected and we do come back connected in some way or another.
Johnny Burke: Mm-Hmm.
Rob Gutro: So that’s the only way I can answer that based on my experiences.
Johnny Burke: Right. I’ve heard that we do choose our parents, as odd as that seems, and it’s not the parents that we want, it’s usually the parents we need.
Rob Gutro: Yeah, that makes sense.
Johnny Burke: But you know that in-between space does exist. It’s not just random and we just fall out of the sky is it?
Rob Gutro: No, I, everything seems to happen for a reason, and we all are connected to each other for a reason. Just like we have chance meetings with somebody , in this life. We think they’re chance meetings, but we are destined to meet certain people who will change our life in one direction or another.
Johnny Burke: Right. It sounds like that could be a soulmate, because soulmates are just not the romantic type. It might be somebody you meet once, but it’s for a reason for you to learn something Is that something that you’ve seen?
Rob Gutro: Absolutely it is. Yes, and honestly, pets can also be soulmates.
Johnny Burke: All right.
Rob Gutro: Because they will guide us from the other side. and they do teach us a lot if we pay attention to them. The main lesson, of course, is learning what unconditional love is. Because as humans, we’re really not capable of learning that on our own. We have to be taught. And that’s one of the goals that pets teach us in this physical life.
Johnny Burke: We can learn a lot from animals. Like you said, their spectrum of sight and sound is much wider than that of a human. Is that true?
Rob Gutro: That is true. So that’s why they can hear and see spirits. They can also hear and see Earthbound ghosts as well. so, if you find your pet staring at something and there’s nothing there, no, no bug, nothing, make note of the date because the date would be significant for a spirit that has crossed over or a birthday or some anniversary. Maybe, if you had another pet that was adopted on that day or passed away on that day, or their birthday was that day, they’re likely seeing that pet. If it’s a person, it’s a birthday or anniversary.
Johnny Burke: I had this discussion not too long ago where I was told heaven is right here where we are. We just can’t see it. So, my question is, is that a frequency issue because we’re not vibrating fast enough, or is that neither here nor there.
Rob Gutro: I will say to me, heaven is Dunkin Donuts, to be honest with you.
Johnny Burke: Okay.
Rob Gutro: So
Johnny Burke: I should have known that was coming. Yeah. It can mean different things to different people.
Rob Gutro: Yeah, so that’s my point. It really does mean different things to different people. It’s hard to really say what heaven means to each person.
Johnny Burke: It seems to me that many of the mediums and empaths and , and everyone associated do believe that spirits are among us. Pets can see them. We can’t, but it’s a vibrational thing. It’s a frequency thing. So when I ask a question is heaven here right here among us, but we just can’t see it because it exists here, but at a different frequency. That’s what I meant, it’s not way up in the clouds, it can be right here.
Rob Gutro: Yeah. It’s a different, dimensional frequency,
Johnny Burke: it is, a frequency. Okay, good. I’m just really trying to connect the dots like everybody else, but that seems to make the most sense,
Rob Gutro: We won’t know for sure if all of these things are true until we’re on the other side . We can only go with our intuition
Johnny Burke: So anything else we should know about this topic?
Rob Gutro: I would say that people should trust their feelings. Really, that’s really the bottom line, and everybody has the ability to perceive messages from spirits. Just don’t dismiss any coincidences because one thing I’ve learned when it comes to messages from spirits of loved ones, whether person or pet, there’s no such thing as a coincidence. If you see someone that looks like them, if you hear their favorite song, that’s not a coincidence. That means that spirit is trying to let you know they’re around.
Johnny Burke: I’ve heard that as well. There are no coincidences; I’m going to put my money on that, rather than thinking things are just random. Rob, thanks so much for joining us tonight. very, very cool information. in the meantime, how can our listeners find you online?
Rob Gutro: Thank you, Johnny. They can go to robgutro.com or pet spirits.com and there’s links to other social media pages from there. And all my books are on Amazon.
Johnny Burke: Excellent. I appreciate it, and I’ll put that in the, show notes in the transcript you’ve been listening to Closer to Venus. I’m Johnny Burke. If enjoyed today’s episode, please consider subscribing. For more info, you can go to closertovenus.com. Thanks for tuning in and we’ll see you next time.