#115 Betty Kovacs: A God Outside Us
Johnny Burke: Welcome to Closer to Venus. I’m Johnny Burke, and today’s guest is Betty Kovacs. She has a Ph.D. in comparative literature, and the theory of symbolic, mythic language. She’s also the author of Merchants of Light, the Consciousness That Is Changing The World, as well as The Miracle Of Death There’s Nothing But Life. Today we will discuss the God outside of us. Betty, welcome to the show.
Betty Kovacs: Thank You.
Johnny Burke: I wanted to mention at the end of our last episode, you mentioned the Nag Hammadi text, which shows us that Jesus wanted to give us a blueprint for our awakening. Now, for those people that didn’t hear that episode, can you give us a brief recap?
Betty Kovacs: Yes, the Nag Hammadi texts were found in Egypt. after World War II and we know that they had been buried in the later part of the fourth century when the church finally gained power and made Christianity the religion of the empire. And of course it began to destroy all other spiritual traditions and temples and mystery schools.
So we know that the monks at Nag Hammadi were visited by representatives from the church, and they were told either that they had to destroy these manuscripts, these texts, or they would destroy them when they came back through. Well, the monks thankfully buried them and let the church believe that they had destroyed them.
They were found just accidentally after World War II just as earlier texts called the Dead Sea Scrolls from the Jews were found also after World War II. Now with the Nag Hammadi text, the reason we’re so grateful to have them is that they reveal a Jesus that is loving and kind and beautiful as the gospels in the church canon, but he is more than that. What he makes very clear in this is that we have the mental capacity, you might say, the brain components to connect with the divine from within. He said I came to remind you of who you are, not to save you. That was never the intention of dying to save someone else. First of all, it is impossible to save someone else on the outside by dying for them or anything else.
Jesus says, I have come to remind you. You’ve forgotten who you are. And it was very clear when he had these visions and with Mary Magdalena and he explained to her of how this is possible. You go within. And this is wonderful because, from the time the church took over, there were 1600 years actually in which the Christians of that period, not the earlier Christians, always believed in a God outside. And as long as there’s some kind of divinity outside of us, what do we do ?That divinity is beyond us, it’s more than us. And of course in Christianity, it wasn’t even here within us and within nature, it was separated. God was in heaven somewhere, and then Jesus had to go back there. Now, I’m not saying that the Gospels aren’t beautiful, they are, but they do not show the true intent of Jesus.
Johnny Burke: It’s very interesting. What I did not recognize right away is that the church actually told the people that discovered the Nag Hammadi texts, that they had to destroy them. They were not allowed to exist.
Betty Kovacs: That was earlier. That was in the fourth century when the church first gained power. The church representatives were going all over that known area where Christianity was and there were monasteries and so on. And so they made it clear to the monks in Nag Hammadi in the fourth century that if they had any texts that weren’t the official narrative, that they would be destroyed.
Johnny Burke: So they did go around to the different camps and the different settlements in the cities and said, this is our narrative. You have to stick to it. If you have any other textbooks, throw them out
Betty Kovacs: That’s right. Severe censorship. I think that for some reason or other, we don’t comprehend that history even when it’s told to us. The church went on a vicious campaign for hundreds of years, really, but from the get-go of destroying temples and monasteries or any text; Arabic texts, Christian texts, Gnostic texts, any text that didn’t go along with their official narrative.
That is God is outside you; Jesus is God’s son, he has come to die for us, save us, and we worship him outside of us. There is a tradition called a secret tradition that Jesus taught. And early Christians, many of them were very aware of that because it was very clear that Jesus was a visionary, a mystic -one who had achieved Christ Consciousness or cosmic consciousness, and he wanted others to know that we all have that capacity. So the secret tradition that Jesus taught was the way of the mystic, the visionary within.
Johnny Burke: We hear that a lot today; the answers are within, they’re not outside of you. They’re within. When we do just that- we meditate, we get into that space. We can discover a lot about ourselves, in some cases past lives and connections or channeling and things like that. Have you had any type of intuitive experiences like that?
Betty Kovacs: I spent so much of my life trying to figure out these things and so for a long time I was doing it through the study of text and different traditions and that sort of thing. And then when I finished my doctorate, I went to Peru, and so that was kind of learning from shamans, going to these various places on the earth that were considered sacred in Peru and meditating and working with sacred medicine because the shamanic tradition for over 40,000 years has worked with sacred medicine in various ways. Other places have for instance, a sand bushman in Africa since it’s desert. They developed other techniques of going within through the heart and opening to that vastness that is within us.
That began when I was in South America, but it really wasn’t until our son was killed in a car accident that both my husband who had not been involved in these things, and I began to experience his consciousness. And I would say it was at that point that for both of us, everything changed because we began to realize the vastness within us that Yahweh had glimpses of, but, but nothing like we experienced after his.
Johnny Burke: So that type of thing, when you were able to experience someone else’s consciousness, in this case of your son, I know we’ve talked about this before, it’s, it’s very sad, but at the same time, from that kind of contact, would that be considered, after death communication, or not necessarily?
Betty Kovacs: yes, yes, it is. And some people experience it through mediums and others have signs. I’ve talked with many, many people since then. In fact, we have a group, Kamlak Center that has a group in which people come together, and talk about the experiences they’ve had, the kinds of, it just incredible ways of experiencing people who have gone already through the other side.
Even though I had been involved in this all my life, I was trained in the university, so I had a lot of doubts and skepticism you might say. But it was interesting that my son knew that and there were things that he did or said to my husband that made me know that it was him, you know? So there were, he, he really played those tricks with me because he knew I had to have that kind of, confirmation, you might say.
Johnny Burke: I’m trying to make the connection here; you seem to have some kind of capacity to go within and experience the vastness. More and more I hear whenever I talk to intuitives, mediums, whatever they want to call themselves, they almost always say, anyone can do this. It’s not a gift, we’re born with it, but some people have it closer to the surface than others. But if you work on it, we can all learn to go within, as you say. Would you agree?
Betty Kovacs: I agree with that, and I think that yes, we all have that capacity, but the history of the western world has been to dumb that down, and I think these organs with which we can perceive the vast consciousness that we are born out of have atrophied in the west. I don’t think we have any notion of how much that, right brain, that symbolic, poetically logical brain that feeds the left brain has been just shunned, demeaned, devalued, and it has atrophied in some way as a culture. The right brain connects with the higher centers of the brain and the heart. What our generation has to do is to jumpstart them, and realize, yeah, there are difficulties here. Most of us are going to have difficulties. But this is our generation, all of us together today that are trying to reactivate them and connect with who we are.
Johnny Burke: And that has, a bit to do with ascension, I would think, so let’s circle back to the Nag Hammadi texts. With your intuitive skills- which are not as atrophied as the rest of us, when you discovered this, did it hit you in a different way where you knew it was absolute truth and it was not a work of fiction? What was it like?
Betty Kovacs: By that time I had been studying early history, early Christianity, and I knew the ancient world, even before Christianity, because my specialty was in myth and symbol, and symbolic language. So I had come across many great mystics before and they all were saying the same thing, and they were all getting in touch with this vastness. So I knew that that was possible. I hadn’t been able to do it at that point, and I suspected that Jesus was precisely such a person, but I was absolutely blown away when I realized that these texts are our evidence. You know? And the church would never allow anyone openly to experience the vastness of who we are. The Gnostics who had these experiences? heretics and excommunicated. Some of the great mystics were threatened with excommunication.
I wasn’t surprised, but I was delighted to discover that text had been found. Now, we also, of course, found around the same time that Dead Sea Scrolls. Now, the church did a lot to keep those from being published because it did give a different view. Same with the Nag Hammadi, but here are Jews around the Dead Sea who were mystics who did not go along with the Second Temple because they, as the church later did away with this mysticism.
The first temple had been a shaman mystic tradition. In fact, Jesus was probably the rebirth of that in Judaism. But when I found the Dead Sea Scrolls, here are mystics who didn’t go along with this outside God, and so I was becoming aware that their mystics all over the world who don’t go along with that. But the western world had been especially bad about it. In fact, they had thwarted our evolution by saying that God is outside of us instead of within us, we are that consciousness.
Johnny Burke: That seems to be consistent with this statement: Christ wanted us to become him.
Betty Kovacs: That was exactly the Nag Hammadi message and the church, that was Jesus’ secret tradition that he taught when he was alive. If indeed he was historical -and I think he was such a person, but he taught that always to go inward, but the church had flipped him around and made him a God outside of us, so it negated his message.
Johnny Burke: Instead of going inward, you have to focus on an external object when it’s already part of you anyway. I think it’s also interesting about the Mormons; apparently, they do believe that a mortal man can become a God.
Is that in line with don’t follow me, become me?
Betty Kovacs: Yes. As a matter of fact, we are all divine. We are as one, quantum physicist says today is that we realize now we are born out of this divine consciousness. We are the manifestation of divinity, and we are co-creators with it. So it’s not that we become a God, we are divine, and that’s what our ancestors tried to teach us: we are immortal, our consciousness continues. We are divine and we are creative. So we are the manifestation and co-creators. So to become God is really to realize who we are.
Johnny Burke: So that is pretty much consistent. It’s just another way of saying the same thing.
Betty Kovacs: It’s a deep recognition that with the big bang or the big breath, we’re all it, we are part of that. We just come to a realization of who we are.
Johnny Burke: Many of the intuitives talk about a love and even a relationship with Jesus, but disavow any allegiance to any manmade religion, church or otherwise dogma. What do you suppose that is?
Betty Kovacs: I think that first of all, we know that love is the ground of being that breath is love. That’s a ground of being in every sense of the word. And I think of course that there are those who have achieved that consciousness. Jesus was a symbol and perhaps a historical person as well who had achieved that consciousness A mystic can certainly get in touch with these great beings on the other side. They can call him Jesus. Perhaps it is Jesus. Perhaps it’s other names or no names. I think that in the visionary state we often are aware of this vast love, and if someone then embodies it, it even temporarily then yes, there’s that profound love relationship
Johnny Burke: I’ve also noticed some of the people that I’ve talked to claim to have either communicated with Jesus and other ascended masters as well, like Yogananda for instance. Some have even claimed to have seen him, where there is another camp of mediums- it’s usually mediums that are kind of skeptical and funny as that sounds, they think. ” Oh, wait a minute. They didn’t talk to Jesus. That’s just their ego.” What are your thoughts on that?
Betty Kovacs: Well, I think it could be a lot of things, I suppose, for the individual who has that experience, you simply know, and it doesn’t matter what anyone else says. That’s what Gnosis means; when you experience that truth within you, that’s it. You don’t have to have validation for the outside. My experience is I haven’t had names for people, but I have experienced vast entities on the other side. And my husband did too. And I remember saying to my son after he had passed, I I wanted to know more about this particular entity. As a matter of fact, there was a name, it was Sheira in Hungarian and Sira in English. And my husband just became aware suddenly that she had been present all along. So I said to myself, what I don’t really understand is that she was very much like what was imagined as the earth mother, but she was so much more than that. And my son gave this answer. He said, “oh mom, her body covers galaxies.”
Johnny Burke: Wow.
Betty Kovacs: And I guess it was a way of trying to get me to know her now. I thought, how strange. But do you know the interesting thing is I was reading-I can’t think of her name right now. A woman who’s done a lot of work with children who are highly perceptive in that. And one of them said- and this just knocked me up, we are from places where the entity’s bodies are larger than galaxies. Can you imagine? When I heard these children use that same terminology, I have to be open to something I hadn’t thought of before. This vastness.
Johnny Burke: And these are children, I imagine what, seven, eight years old? They weren’t teenagers,
Betty Kovacs: No, no. They were very young and they seemed to insist that they were from other dimensions of reality and they had come to help the earth because we’re going through this crucial transformation and that’s what they said, it’s interesting.
Johnny Burke: What’s interesting about that, I was just talking to a spiritual hypnotist, Steven Towill very, very interesting guy. And one of the things he talked about was with children; they often don’t have to be hypnotized to remember past lives. So what you just said actually is believable because kids up to a certain age can easily recall past lives and experiences like you just described. Then they hit a certain age where it just kind of turns off.
Betty Kovacs: This is absolutely true and verified. Hundreds and hundreds of times, Ian Stevenson worked with these children who knew their past lives. They know in detail; they know their parent’s names. They know the city where they lived, they know the address, and Ian Stevenson’s work was going right with those children to those places and confirming how they died or were murdered.
Johnny Burke: Was that Dr. Ian Stevenson?
Betty Kovacs: Yes, I mean, he’s the original one and there’ve been so many since who’ve done this work, but it’s absolutely true. At a certain point, all that detail is gone. I have no memory of remembering anything or no one telling me I did, when I was young, but many of these children do.
Johnny Burke: Now, when you were young, did you have any type of experiences like that where maybe you sensed or saw spirits or had communication with, beyond the veil?
Betty Kovacs: No, no. I have to say I didn’t. I lived in nature too. My brother and I were always out in nature playing. Of course, I was in the south and my parents didn’t go to church, but they were open to anything, and we went to church and that sort of thing. It was when I just could not believe it. I love the stories of Jesus. I think Jesus, the image, the symbol of the beauty of his life, his honesty, his love, his care for people. That became a powerful image within me, but at a point, I could not believe. And so that began my search intellectually to try to discover historically what had taken place.
But it wasn’t until later, and especially after our son died, and he said at one point to me, you and dad needed to keep yourself on ice until I died because you needed to-
Johnny Burke: I am sorry, I’m trying not to laugh at this, your son’s name, was it Pisti ? sounds like he’s got now a sense of humor,
Betty Kovacs: Oh, he always had, yes, he was more serious with me and the visions, but he and his dad had quite a sense of humor together. But it was funny because I spent my life studying it, but it wasn’t really to be until he died that it just opened up and he wanted us to know his consciousness is very much alive, still creating, but he also wanted us to know what’s going on the earth and the years coming because according to him, we chose to come in at this time in this dimension.
Johnny Burke: Does he share any insight into what is coming up for us, whether there are obstacles or whatever they are?
Betty Kovacs: It seemed to be that we see many obstacles and I spent a tremendous time in researching what had happened in the western world of why we are in a pathological state, you might say, in the western world and now the world and how all of this censorship has created the darkness of those who’ve gone outside themselves.
When we go outside ourselves, we don’t have that power within, so we want to control others and we see that what we’re up against now is 2000 years of censorship and going outside so that we have people who have no concept of their potential of that we are it and they want to control us, and they’ve become very clever at doing it and censoring our knowledge of it. So I think that although he wasn’t specific, I have felt myself guided always to find this out.
Johnny Burke: So for those who don’t go within to find answers, it sounds like they’re empty. They feel the need to control others.
Betty Kovacs: Yes. They find their meaning outside themselves. In the Nag Hammadi text, one of the sayings of Jesus, which I love, is that-and it’s so true, if you bring forth what is within you it will save you, but if you do not bring forth what is within you, it will destroy you.
Johnny Burke: I remember you telling me that.
Betty Kovacs: And that’s what I think we see. I used to always think all these men were saying, we have to get rid of our ego. No, the ego has just flipped the wrong side out. The ego is to reflect this great self within, but when we don’t develop it, of course, it’s going to flip into the outer world. If we believe in outer meaning, it’s going to snatch and grab every single thing again to make itself look good. There’s no problem with ego. Once we have the inner experiences, then the ego takes its rightful place.
Johnny Burke: It would explain why so many people- people that are a little bit more enlightened that have done the homework, say the answers are within, they’re not outside of you.
Betty Kovacs: They absolutely are. I just want to say as quickly as I can, what is so important is that Jesus recognized, although we wouldn’t have called it that -the right brain. And the right brain and left brain need to work together.
The right brain is our first language. It develops before the left brain, and it’s symbolic, and it is poetically logical. It feeds the left brain. Now, the early Christians said that if you have experience with the other side, it’s symbolic; its language is symbolic. But what these Christians did, they didn’t understand all of that, and they didn’t understand the great mystery schools, which were initiations into the inner experience.
There were many gods before the dying and reviving gods. This was symbolic of the human psyche. Since the Christians then didn’t understand symbolic language, they made Jesus historical. No. There were many gods, you might say, who came before, who are symbols of our psyche, our own psyche of coming into life, dying to what we knew and being reborn again into our new consciousness. There were so many, 33 of them, I think have been discovered that have really been written about.
So Jesus, even if he were historic, he probably was. He was a symbol of the human soul psyche. But the Christians didn’t understand that, and they made him historical. And there’s only one God at one time in one place. Well, all of the people of his time knew that wasn’t true. But the church did everything it could to create an official narrative in which that was true. But the people in the ancient world knew that it was symbolic as well as literal. Jesus is a symbol for Christ is a symbol of us.
Johnny Burke: How do you explain this to someone who goes to church, has good intentions, wants to find spirituality, wants to find a community, goodness, and love; how do you explain this to them? Or do you not even bother because the obstacles they have in front of them in order to understand it, are just too large?
Betty Kovacs: Well, there are many Christians who are very loving, kind people and they have this love for Jesus and they’re loving the image, and I think that’s a good thing. But usually, most of them are not seeking any other answers because this works for them. And one has to say, well, it is love, and if we can extend that love to others other than Jesus, ourselves, and others, it’s a good thing. But it’s such a shame that we don’t really understand who we are and that they don’t really want to know. Many of them don’t want to know because that works for them.
Johnny Burke: Good point. As if they were saying, I know what I know, I believe what I believe. Don’t confuse me with the facts!
Betty Kovacs: Yeah, it’s kind of that way..
Johnny Burke: What you just described is pretty much the state of the churchgoers where it works for them and they don’t want any other answers, but there’s more and more people that are looking for answers. They are looking within, they are doing the research, they go to mediums, they want to learn about the history of the mystics, the true history, the one that the church has been repressing for hundreds of years. I’d like to be able to explain that to people, but every time I’ve tried to do so, I always come to the conclusion, why did I even bring that up?
Betty Kovacs: There is a danger in this process because Christianity has always said it is the only true religion. And anytime someone in a religion says that they haven’t gone within, because there is not one true approach. There are many ways to the divine. You can call it by many names, but there is not one approach. That has been socially and politically extremely dangerous. That we are the only ones; that sense of superiority is very, very dangerous. that is pretty much saturated the Christian tradition today. But that wasn’t in the beginning. The early Christians knew that this is a symbol of who we are and our path. And the Sufi mystics were also finding their path.
There have been great, reformers all the way through our history who’ve tried to get us to realize, look, why are the Protestants and Catholics fighting, or Muslims and Christians? If you go to the heart of it, we are all the same. We are all at that.
Johnny Burke: I’ve heard that an awful lot. I even had someone say recently when you look at another person and maybe they don’t agree with you, or maybe they’re just out there being very irritating and whatever, look at them as if you were looking at yourself because at the end of the day, we all came from source and we are sparks of the same light.
Betty Kovacs: We are all connected, and quantum physics knows that it’s all one.
So did the early Christians, and so does every spiritual tradition that has experienced it. Is it? It’s one. Yeah. And if there’s cancer in part of us, we need to be concerned with it.
Johnny Burke: I agree. And speaking of cancer, let’s talk about the effect of the outside God on how our society is structured today. There’s an increasing amount of divisiveness in the political theater and there’s certain people that are aligning themself with God, and I’m thinking it just seems off. What are your thoughts?
Betty Kovacs: I think it’s always, a problem when someone is saying that we are aligned with God, and it is God’s will. That we kill you or that we do whatever. The most atrocious things have been attributed to God’s decisions. No,it has divided society from the beginning in the western world and the ancient world. There could be many traditions and initiations. They were aware of this vast oneness and nature. They wanted to know the laws of nature of the universe and also know their own psyche, their own soul. The stories of who we are are true stories that are actually organized by the organizing principles of the human psyche. They follow laws and every true story tells us how to evolve. The Genesis story about not eating the fruit is a falsification of the most horrible order. That story is a false story. Never would a divine being say, I do not want you to know. Have this conscious right and wrong or whatever,
Johnny Burke: I’m sorry. I don’t mean to laugh, but it’s kind of ridiculous when you think about it.
Betty Kovacs: It’s so ridiculous, but you know, when we are brainwashed, it’s irrational and ridiculous that we seem to believe. These technocrats today are saying we’re flawed. Human beings are flawed, and we can fix this through nanomedicine and AI and all of these things, and we’ll control you, but we can fix it. But they have no concept. That one falsification of the true story in which God shows us the tree and offers the fruit to us to one who’s denying it. It has done so much damage, but my point is that true stories always are for our evolution, and we can recognize them because they are always positive and to help us grow and develop.
Johnny Burke: So there is some credence to that theory that the politicians, for instance, that align themselves with certain groups, they’re basically leveraging that belief in an outside God; if you believe in God, you will vote for us .
Betty Kovacs: Which is crazy as if there are a whole bunch of gods somewhere, and I know the true gods, you don’t. It is ignorance of the first order and the fact that it has continued for so long is sad. Very sad. We need to find our true stories and allow that development to take place and work together. And of course, a politician is going to do everything he can to divide us, so that we will be fighting with each other and not see what they’re doing- the force behind the force and get the power that way. it’s an old trick and it seems to keep working
Johnny Burke: It really does. I just always thought that was a red flag when certain religious groups would attach themselves to a particular political figure.
I knew that once I saw- I can’t remember what news channel it was, but these people were literally praying at a voting station and I thought, we are lost. That is so wrong it’s comical, but
Betty Kovacs: Because we know in our recent history that very often the groups that say they are religious and caring and spiritual, often align themselves with someone who’s totally not.
Johnny Burke: We’re seeing that now without question.
Betty Kovacs: It’s so true. We have to look kind of hard to find now because we’ve all been kind of debased with this politically, is to find those who were what we thought they were, you know?
Johnny Burke: Hopefully we will. We talked before briefly about how you were able to communicate with Pisti and I believe your husband; they both unfortunately passed. Having that confirmation that when we leave this earth, we don’t really die. Does that fortify your other beliefs and everything else we spoke about? Jesus and going within and not worshiping a God outside of us?
Betty Kovacs: Well, it absolutely does because once you have those experiences, suddenly it’s like, oh. you remember, and even my husband who had not been interested after his first vision, it’s that knowing that is so deep and I wish that it were easy now for me to go into those states. I am trying to repair these abilities you know, as much as anyone else. But after Pisti died I think our hearts were so broken open and we did use rituals. We sometimes worked with sacred medicine or not. My husband said on the way to work, it was like a tape recorder going off. Everything he had to remember, remember that he had put on ice for all these years. So I think that that opened us up. I feel it and I know their direction. I wish that I could be more in tune, more easily. I think we’re all working on that, but I have no doubt whatsoever and absolutely no fear of death. None of it. I don’t want to be sick.
Johnny Burke: We’re in no rush. I think it’s always to underscore that belief when it does come up because if it does, it’s not something we avoid. I think the question for a lot of people is, especially when they lose someone, what happens to them? Am I ever going to see them again? And I’ve heard again and again that we do apparently reunite with our loved ones when we go to the other side.
Betty Kovacs: Oh, absolutely. And I think that there are many different frequencies on the other side, and we find the frequency that we can live in.
I have had an experience of frequency so high, so powerful that I knew that that was not my frequency. And I know it exists. But then we find our own frequencies. But I think that those in the higher frequencies can visit us in the other. But I think what we want to do here is to try to intensify that inner potential to reach higher frequencies.
The book Merchants of Light is based on the vision that my husband had and I that these are beings who aren’t being born on the earth now who have a higher frequency, and it’s also an energy field that now has been attached to the earth, which makes it easier for us to increase our frequencies and achieve what we hope to achieve in healing ourselves and the world. But I think the frequency now is the potential is much greater than it was before, and that’s I think one of the things my son wanted to get across.
Johnny Burke: That’s definitely a good message. Anything else that we should know? Especially anything any messages from Pisti or your husband?
Betty Kovacs: Well, my husband’s first vision was love is the key to everything. And if we go through the heart and connect with the heart of the world, we realize it’s the same. And in every renaissance, the rebirth of this ancient knowledge, it was always the recognition that we heal the world through healing our own hearts, our own selves, and that and that we’re absolutely one.
My journey of healing my heart is a journey to heal the world.
Johnny Burke: I think we’re going to stop there because I don’t want to go past that and actually ruin it. So, Betty, thanks so much for joining us today. Great information as always. How can our, listeners, find out more about you online?
Betty Kovacs: Well, first of all, I want to say thank you for the work you’re doing, I love talking with you! They could go to kamlak.com, there are articles there in podcasts and webinars and things like that. If you sign up for a newsletter, then a chapter from Merchants of Light is sent to you automatically. It’s the one on the high Middle Ages, which is one of the most profound times we have had in the western world of the rebirth of this knowledge
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