spirit guides

Johnny Burke: .Welcome to Closer to Venus, I’m Johnny Burke. Today we welcome back Patty Lennon, who is a coach, author of Make Space For Magic and founder of The Receiving School. Today, we’re going to talk about how people communicate with Jesus and other ascended masters Patty, welcome back.  
 

Patty Lennon: Thank you for having me back. What a privilege.  
 
 

Johnny Burke : It’s a pleasure, and I do believe this,episode may be a first of a series of people that communicate with Christ, as I’ve actually come across quite a few people that have told me that this is actually pretty common. So here we go. You’ve had many experiences and you told me recently that you were now communicating with Christ. When did you first realize that was happening and otherwise, how did that start? 
 
 

Patty Lennon: Well, I think since I was raised Christian and a Catholic, There was a level of discipline of praying, there was a certain level of, talking to maybe Jesus, as a child. The experience I have now is very different. This feels personal, the communication feels personal. Whereas when I was a child and I was doing it under the tutelage of nuns and priests, it just sort of felt like Jesus was over there and I was talking to him, and maybe I’d get sort of a whiff of something back, but it wasn’t this one-to-one communication. Jesus had been showing up and I didn’t realize it was Jesus, for a couple of years. And when he finally told me he was Jesus, it was actually during the beginning of the pandemic. So I had always had this particular guy that showed up that looked somewhat like a 20 something college student. He was slim, he had jeans, he would always have like Tivas or something on. And he would kind of give me some snarky advice.  
 
 

Johnny Burke : Really? snarky you say? 
 
 

Patty Lennon: Yeah, always snarky. And for the most part, that’s a lot of the energy he shows up for me usually is that version. Over the course of my life, the footprints prayer– the footprints in the sand when there was only one set of footprints, Jesus was carrying me. That was always very close to my heart. And I did always, even as a child in very difficult moments, feel Jesus’s love near.  
 
 

So I was out for a walk and I felt Jesus near me. I said, “well, what do you want? What are you doing here?” Like, I can feel you, you’re not going away so obviously, you’re feeling something in my heart. And all of a sudden he just took form, in a very specific form . He looked more or less like what he would look like when we would think he was alive on the planet.. He was telling me that I needed to essentially get over some of the childhood pain that I was processing at that particular time. He goes, “you can’t do your work on the planet. If you keep holding this.” And I was like, well, it’s Interesting that you’re showing up now when I’m 48 and it’s really hard to get rid of trauma. Where were you when I was like eight or nine when we could have like nipped this in the bud? ” if this isn’t helpful for me, why are you showing up so late to the game?” 
 
 

Johnny Burke : Here’s a question that I know is going to come up. no matter what, how do we know that it’s really him and not an imposter spirit? and I’m not one to buy into conspiracy theories of any kind, but it’s a reasonable question.
 
 

Patty Lennon: It’s a very real question. First of all, you have to be clear about what your level of discernment is. I’ve been doing this work for a long time. I haven’t always talked to the other side of the veil, but I have been able to do it since I was 35. And I’m 50 now. I’ve been working on these gifts consistently for 15 years. So at the point of this story, I had built up discernment and I built up processes for grounding myself and understanding the feeling state of loving communication. And so I would say at the heart of it, loving communication from the other side of the veil, no matter who it is, whatever ascended master or spirit guide is talking to, you will ultimately feel like love inside your body. The feeling of love is the same feeling you get for any human or pet or baby that you have unconditional love for. So first understand what that physically feels like in your body. As you receive that communication, you should feel something of a similar nature. That cannot be fake. 
 
 

I don’t communicate with deceivers. I just don’t have that level of communication with the other side. One of my spirit teachers does clear dark spirits. She does work withentities that are a little more troublesome. I’m not denying that they exist. I have not had interactions with them. But if that is something that is of concern for you, just understand free will. It always trumps everything. So you saying only love gets to play here, always counts. So you will always get to set those ground rules.  
 
 

Johnny Burke : Let’s talk about spirit guides and the angels. You’ve had experiences with them before. Was that your initiation or did it all kind of happen at once? 
 
 

Patty Lennon: No, that was my initiation. So I was in a desert, at a retreat, started to know things. And so it really came through initially as claircognizance, suddenly the information is in your mind. I doubted it. And as I started to work with this being reality, and I was getting different occurrences in my life to tell me that these were real pieces of information I was knowing, I started to ask for help. Slowly more nuanced communication forms came through the more time I spent in quiet. 
 
 

 So at first, it was spirit guides that came to me. Giving me, an understanding that they had always been with me that everyone’s always had spirit guides from the beginning of their lives. And then they get extra spirit guides when they’re doing new tasks, so that I was having new spirit guides coming into my life to help me as I start to do this intuitive work and that they were going to help me.  
 
 

Johnny Burke : You mentioned before when you first encountered, Jesus. He looked like a regular dude, like a 20 something. Now I’ve also had people tell me that Christ does appear to us as we would imagine him to be. Also, the demeanor is close to what our demeanor is, which would explain the first encounter, the first few encounters, he was somewhat snarky, which obviously would kind of mirror your personality, right? I do remember someone telling me recently she said,” Jesus is my dude, but not in a religious way.” this kind of experience, this communication dialogue, that is a departure from so-called religious experiences. Is it not?  
 
 

Patty Lennon: I will say that Jesus does sometime appear to me exactly as the sacred heart of Jesus. So with the burning heart,, he does come to me sometimes like that. The way that he appears is relative to what he’s looking to accomplish in that particular communication. 
 
 

 When you look at how he would have appeared to people prior to 2012, where we really start to have this energetic shift into the divine feminine. Then when you go back to the seventies, where we first start to see that Aquarius energy open people up. You’re going to see, he’s going to come through what’s available to him. And then when you go back further, he’s going to appear in whatever form gets him to his end goal, which is helping people know and understand his love and support. The further back you go, the more traditional he would have looked. And this is my understanding- just because he wanted to make it easy for people. 
 
 

Johnny Burke : You mentioned 2012 and the divine feminine. What does this have to do with Ascension? And what does that have to do with the uptick in people, intuitives that report being able to communicate with Jesus? Is there a connection there, or is that not the case?  
 
 

Patty Lennon: Yeah. Yeah. There is. First of all, in 2012, when the Mayan calendar originally ended and people thought the world was gonna end because the Mayan calendar ended, what really was happening was the ancient Mayans understood humanity was on a course. It was either going to make the decision to evolve or die And we made the decision as humanity to evolve. So 2012 wasn’t the end of the world. It was just the beginning of this next occurrence. What was required in evolution was for us to shift out of this dysfunctional masculine energy, which just means way more masculine energy than feminine. We just need to be in balance. 
 
 

 That feminine energy is intuitive energy. It’s the receptive energy. So your ability to get your intuition and talk to the other side of the veil is our feminine energy. So Jesus’ ability to get through the veil to people just grew and grew and grew every year since then. Also our willingness to lean into love, which is what Jesus’s mission is, right? Is disruptive love. That’s his energy.  
 
 

Johnny Burke : Disruptive love. That’s a really good description of 2012 and the divine feminine and how that ties into what’s happening now because along with Ascension, there’s a lot of chatter and discussion about, the empathic big bang. The medium explosion. Intuition really is the feminine energy. And now that we’re shifting upwards, correcting the balance between the feminine and the male energy, what does that have to do with the energy healers, the shamans, the mystics from thousands of years ago?Is there a connection there?  
 
 

Patty Lennon: Between them and Jesus or between them and the time we’re in now? 
 
 

Johnny Burke : What was happening then and what’s happening now. 
 
 

Patty Lennon: They were the ones who had the courage to hold the light in a sea of darkness. The connection is they came in service to all of us. They just kept showing up and anchoring the light and healing what they could heal so that we could progress through our free choice. And ultimately, hopefully, set humanity up to make a choice that led to evolution and not destruction. .  
 
 

Johnny Burke : since we’re on that subject and we’re touching on mysticism and shamanism and ultimately how that was repressed by church and state for centuries, your experiences with Jesus as well as others. How do you suppose that changes our views on religion and the church? 
 
 

Patty Lennon: I don’t know that it changes our views on religion and the church, because ultimately I think what everyone has the opportunity to do is to separate your relationship with Jesus, from your relationship with a Jesus-based church. and understand that churches served humanity in a benevolent way, and also were power structures. The time they were created, there was a lot of fear and power in the way that they taught God and created a relationship for people with God, but it was also of the time it matched the vibration of the time. As the vibration of the planet has changed, the church has not necessarily evolved. With it. Although I personally feel our current Pope holds a very deep level of compassion and love within him. I think he really embodies an evolved level of compassion, maybe he can’t shift the Titanic that is the Catholic church overnight, but, he is showing up in a very different way than the last Pope.  
 
 

Johnny Burke : Yeah, that’s true. I would agree with that.  
 
 

Patty Lennon: Yeah, but I think, religion and I’ll use my dad as an example, who’s crossed over. My dad was a devout Catholic. And when he crossed over and found out that all the rules he followed weren’t necessary, he said”, but they served me, Patty. They served me but what. I would want everyone to know is that when you cross over, kindness is the only currency and you will receive the kindness back that you put out into the world.” And he wished he had known that better. He was a deeply kind, man. So it wasn’t that he wasn’t kind, but he wished he had understood how good he truly was that the church didn’t fully let him experience that.  
 
 

Johnny Burke : Ithink the issue with church, and I’ve heard this from many  intuitives, they agree there’s obviously inaccuracies in the Bible, and they don’t agree with all of what is taught in church, but the same people openly profess their love for Jesus. The more I talk to people like them and like you, of course, with your example with your dad, it served him. He wished he would have known the rules before .
 
 

Patty Lennon: The Bible has been translated through three separate languages , and then been taken out of the context of history. Unless you can source the original language and the historical context, you will never fully understand the Bible. And most of it has been bastardized- it’s taken something that I truly believe was divinely given, but it’s been taken out of context.  
 
 

Johnny Burke-: Is that a fair point to say that Christianity does need a reboot? Or is it not even worth bringing that up? 
 
 

Patty Lennon: Christianity is so different, Catholics are so different than Presbyterians from Baptists, not that I consider myself a practicing Catholic, but I’m wildly different than a Unitarian church. I think there are pieces of Christianity that are evolving beautifully, it doesn’t need a reboot. I think it serves a certain group of people and I think we are all being called to understand what is it that we need to have a full and complete relationship with the divine. You have to be honest with whether your religion of origin does that for you or not.  
 
 

Johnny Burke : That’s a good point. You have to be honest with that particular branch of the church. Let’s say you go to a church and you like the sermons. You liked the pastor. And then someone brings up the fact that they don’t accept gays, for instance- anybody who’s not heterosexual. And who doesn’t know someone who’s either a sibling or a friend or a friend of a friend? That creates conflict. I know a lot of people that  had a problem with that. And that’s just further evidence that there are bits and pieces of the Bible that are obviously outdated. But as you said, there are good parts, but it’s been obscured and bastardized and taken out of context where sometimes it’s better to either throw it out completely or just accept it for what it is- be a kind person, be loving, and hope for the best.  
 
 

Patty Lennon: I think inside what you just said is the idea, and I’ll just stick with Catholicism, because it’s my point of reference the Catholic church says that, sexual intercourse between same-sex individuals is a sin, Right? If you’re counting yourself as a Catholic, are you then affirming that? 
 
 

Johnny Burke-: Well, yeah, you’re a member and you’re going to a club. If you choose to look the other way, that’s going to give some people a problem. Whereas some people cannot look away and then they’re thinking,” nah, not going to that club anymore.” 
 
 

Patty Lennon: I would say I was able to actively stay a part of the Catholic church when I was, and opposed that actively. I believe it’s possible to be part of a church, an activist within the church. And one of my favorite people is sister Joan Chittister, she’s an amazing activist. And she says she can’t leave the Catholic church because the sacraments mean too much to her. But she actively opposes these things and she is such a powerful voice within the church. Her staying a part of the Church does far more to move activism forward in a way that I think would match what Jesus wanted more than her leaving the church.  
 
 

Johnny Burke : So to get back to Jesus, since you’ve had these experiences, does that kind of alleviate any misgivings you’ve had about the church or about religion in general? where you can look at it and say I found the divine source, so I don’t really need to judge it.
 
 

Patty Lennon: I think knowing Jesus, the way that I do now, I can say he, he feels no alliance with the Catholic church.  
 
 

Johnny Burke-: Okay.  
 
 

Patty Lennon: I don’t think he would be like,” oh yeah, you need to be a Catholic to be in a relationship with me. ” he was dead and gone by the time the Catholic church was created, you know?  
 
 

Johnny Burke-: Right. He didn’t create that. he didn’t create the church.  
 
 

Patty Lennon: No
 
 

Johnny Burke-: Did he actually tell you that? 
 
 

Patty Lennon: Yes. but he does have a deep love.of the sacrament of transubstantiation, which is the blessing of the community, which is what makes Catholics different than some of the other Christians is they actually believe it becomes the body and blood of Jesus Christ. That sacrament done in respect, he appreciates the ability to be in communion with humanity on that level. It’s not that he is  without the love of the sacraments, but he doesn’t require them to be in a relationship with him. That’s my understanding. 
 
 

 There are still things I’m still reckoning with in the Catholic church that I have been able to reckon with, but I’m still answering to my children, specifically my daughter, is still hard. I appreciate the Catholic church and the people I, learned from gave me a very loving relationship to the divine. I didn’t have a hell and brimstone kind of upbringing, but there’s a reckoning for the harm that’s been done, but I don’t think it is related to Jesus and I don’t think Jesus needs to answer for it.  
 
 

Johnny Burke : I think that’s a great way for you to reconcile your beliefs with your discovery and your communication. Because I think whether you go to church or not, I think everyone deep down inside wants this kind of relationship with the divine, right? For someone that is not religious, maybe doesn’t even believe in anything- can that kind of person have the kind of experience that you have?  
 
 

Patty Lennon: Yeah. And I think they’d be closer to it  
 
 

Johnny Burke-: really? Why is that? 
 
 

Patty Lennon: Because they come without the baggage.  
 
 

Johnny Burke : Very interesting. I never thought of it that way. in other words, they don’t have the baggage of the beliefs and the guilt and everything else that is associated with that. what else has he told you that our listeners need to know about; lessons messages or are his messages more on a one-to-one basis? ,  
 
 

Patty Lennon: I actually talked to Jesus before I did this interview with you today. because I wanted to make sure it was okay if you ask me questions where I was speaking kind of on his behalf.  
 
 

Johnny Burke: Good.  
 
 

Patty Lennon: Okay to do that, like, am I clear to do that? Do I need to stay in my own lane? What is it? usually when we talk it’s, one-to-one. It’s about me, you know, I’m very self-centered when it comes to my intuitive communication,  but, he said,” you’re good to go Patty. The only thing I want people to know is how much I love them and how much I’m there for them”. Anyone .
 
 

Johnny Burke: Did he warn you about coming on to Closer to Venus for a second time? being snarky? I was kind of hoping he would. I’ll probably edit that out, anyway,  
 
 

Patty Lennon: I think he’d like if you’d kept it in  
 
 

Johnny Burke: Are you getting that intuition from him now, or are you just kind of guessing? 
 
 

Patty Lennon: Yeah, Jesus really wants people to have a real-life relationship with him. Not, he’s on a pedestal and they’re down here. He wants an intimate, personal relationship. That is the way he can help them out. One of my highest performing podcasts was I told a conversation I had with Jesus. It was the one I started to tell you before where I was yelling at him and saying,” why weren’t you there for me?” He doesn’t need us to be devout in some weird religious way. He wants our truth. He wants us to process our pain with him. He wants our honesty because he can’t answer. If we don’t tell him the truth.  
 
 

Johnny Burke: I never heard that before either, that’s really interesting. He wants our truth. However beautiful or however ugly it is,right? 
 
 

Patty Lennon: Because he’s seen your pain. it hurts him. He doesn’t want you to pretend like you’re okay. He doesn’t need that.  
 
 

Johnny Burke: Okay. What about other ascended masters that you’ve had communication with? 
 
 

Patty Lennon: so the only ascended master, and I consider her an ascended master is Brigid. So she’s someone that works with me personally, St. Brigid, she works with me in that very personal way, but every other ascended master I’ve engaged with-  Quan Yin, White Tara, Mother Mary, Mary Magdalen, every other ascended master I’ve worked with, it has felt much more like they’re there to help me. and they do give me communication and guidance, but the very personal level of it. I don’t experience myself. I know others who do, but I don’t.  
 
 

Johnny Burke: So when you say it’s not that personal- can you give me a little bit more detail there?  
 
 

Patty Lennon: Yeah. Brigid and Jesus both show up in a very physical experience. I can see them, they have clothes on, they have identifiers and it’s very conversational. When Quan Yin comes in, she helps us with self-compassion and love . I’ll ask her help and I’ll ask her guidance and I’ll say, ” Quan Yin I’m really struggling right now with doing the right thing here.” And she’ll say, “what does your heart say to do Patty? “And I’ll get an answer. And she was like, what else do you need to follow that answer? And I might come up with what it is. It feels very much like a teacher speaking to me. Whereas Jesus and Brigid sometimes feel like teachers, a lot of times they feel like friends.  
 
 

Johnny Burke: Who do you suppose Brigid and Quan Yin  are,? especially for those people that have never heard those names before. 
 
 

Patty Lennon: You mean what’s the history on them?  Quan Yin is a central figure in Buddhism. I don’t know that she has ever embodied herself in the human form.  
 
 

Johnny Burke : Right.  
 
 

Patty Lennon: She definitely stays present on the earth realm . That’s the ascended master piece. They’re here for us as masters of this human experience. Brigid has been believed to have walked the earth in pagan times. And because she was so central to people in Ireland in the Celtic regions, the Catholic church took her over And made her a Saint, and built a whole other origin story around her so that they could take everyone that believed in Brigid and bring them over to Catholicism. White Tara, again is an embodiment of energy and makes herself known. Another one that’s been working with me is Our Lady of Guadalupe, the Black Madonna. So it’s an embodiment of the Mother Mary energy through a culture that has built a very distinct relationship with her.  
 
 

Johnny Burke-: That particular culture is obviously a very mystical one, indeed. How cool is it to have these kinds of communications with Jesus with all the ascended masters that you’ve ha?, what does it feel like? Do you get chills? How does it work? 
 
 

Patty Lennon: It does when they come through for my clients. So when they’re coming through on behalf of someone else, what causes the hair to stand up for me? And I think this is why we have that hair standing up experience is you’re suddenly understanding that we are being lifted up out of a base human experience.  
 
 

 I have a friend who’s Jewish, and right now Jesus is very hard,working to be her friend and she’s hearing him a little bit and I just love it. He’s so perfect for her because right now her relationship to Judaism is very conflicted. So he’s perfect because he’s not involved, but he is Jewish. He knows what it’s like to have a Jewish mother. And he talks to her about these things, and when he’s talking to her, through me, my hair on my arms does stand up because I can feel his love for her. And that I get to be a conduit of that is extraordinary. 
 
 

But when they come for me, I generally don’t have that experience because I’ve gone through the process of creating the environment and asking them to come in. On occasion when I’ve been in crisis and they’ve shown up, it’s like all of the fear drains out of my body and I suddenly feel at peace. 
 
 

Johnny Burke: The ability to bring them forth for your clients has to be incredibly rewarding- it’s proof, it’s not just happening for you. It’s happening for your clients, for other people. And you actually get to watch that. What is that like?  
 
 

Patty Lennon: My whole reason for being here on the planet, other than, the human stuff. I believe my purpose is to help people understand that they truly are loved by the divine. It’s almost like I’ve got this cup that needs to be filled and I’ve got these little tokens, and if I can keep putting enough tokens in it when the cup is full, enough love will exist. That the power that hateful people have and violent people have will go away. So for me, it’s this cyclical experiential cycle of knowing it’s getting better.  
 
 

Johnny Burke : You brought up something about hateful people and people that do bad things.  I’ve been told several times that once we cross over beyond the veil to the other side, manifestation is instant. I could imagine a jam session with Jimmy Hendrix, Prince and David Bowie, and I’ll even play bass if I have to. it would be incredible.  
 
 

 If that is true and I imagine it is, might the concept of hell  actually be  self-induced for those people that have done bad things? Once they cross over, they really feel the brunt and the burden of the things that they did before .Do you think that’s induced, or is that an external force that is actually forcing them into that space?  
 
 

Patty Lennon: It is not an external force. I can say that with faith certainty. my understanding is when we cross over, we experience every action we took. The results of every action we took, but in reverse. So all the kindness we gave all the love we give, we get to feel what it felt for all the people that received it and all the pain we caused. We get to feel the pain as others received it as a result of our work and actions. And so hell then would be someone who spent most of their life causing pain. 
 
 

Johnny Burke : It’s very consistent with what I’ve heard many times now. What about those people? We didn’t really talk about pre-birth planning, in between incarnations. Let’s say you and I are in a soul group and you come up to me in that space and say, Hey, Johnny, I need this experience, so you need to be the guy that ruins my family or just something heinous, whatever it is. Does that person that takes that part- does that alleviate them from any guilt or do they forget all about what they were here to do? 
 
 

Patty Lennon: No, when you cross over. So, there’s one story I heard, which was a father who took on alcoholism. He was an alcoholic abusive father to serve his child’s path. The thing the child was learning, that soul was learning, was forgiveness, and they need to learn it at a very deep level. And at the end of that person’s life, they were holding on. And finally, the son said,” I forgive you.” And the man crossed over. And on the other side was the celebration because he couldn’t leave. He could’ve, it was painful to be here on this planet, locked in that addiction, but he sacrificed himself. So to give this person the time to reach forgiveness, Now, when he crosses over, does that mean he’s bearing the brunt of all of the pain along the way? I think it would be like a spark, it would be like a second of pain because it’s in the context of all of the other work he was doing.  
 
 

Johnny Burke :  What was pre-planned. Basically, it’s as if the director told himto play this role, so when he stepped off the stage, there was probably a spark, but then he realized, okay,” great, cut.  You did a good job.”  
 
 

Patty Lennon: Yeah.  
 
 

Johnny Burke-: Really interesting. All right. Really cool stuff. So I guess the last question would be, the common man; how do we communicate with Jesus? I know I asked you this before, I want the listeners to hear this. How do we find the divine? How do we talk to Jesus, and for that matter our spirit guides? 
 
 

Patty Lennon: Well, you just ask. They’re always communicating with you. It’s just you are not understanding their language. So what I highly recommend is asking for a specific sign or a set of signs that they can communicate with you until you learn to hear the more fluid, nuanced language. That’s one. 
 
 

 And if you’re trying to understand what ascended master is ready to work with you or which one would make the most sense? Just watch, they’ll start to show themselves to you. I have had, Kali- I have watched colleagues show herself to one of my friends, no less than three or four times. Just images. And her name comes up and I’m like, Kali is trying to tell you, she wants to work with you. they’ll show you.  
 
 

Johnny Burke-: Excellent I don’t think I could do much better than that,so we’re going to end on that note. Patty, thanks so much for joining us. Excellent  information, now for our listeners, how can they learn more about you online?  
 
 

Patty Lennon: Well go to the space for magic podcasts. That’s the best way to keep up with me on a week-by-week basis, or if you want to get my book, go to PattyLennon.com/ make space for magic. And you’ll see all our goodies there around the book. every other way you can have free fun stuff.