#147 Winnifred Davis: A Continuation Of An Atlantean Karmic JourneyIn the 21st Century
#147 Winnifred Davis
Johnny Burke: Welcome to Closer to Venus. I’m Johnny Burke. Today’s guest is Winnifred Davis. She is a spiritual counselor, healer, psychic, medium and shaman. She’s also the author of several books on the Soul Its Journey and Reincarnation. And today we will discuss one of those books, Prophecy of the Homecoming of My Roman Soldier. A Venusian to Neptunian Karmic Journey. The book is about two souls who made a vow after their journey in Atlantis to reincarnate at this time to finish what they started in Atlantis. Winifred, welcome to the program.
Winnifred Davis: Oh, thank you for having me, John. How are you today?
Johnny Burke: Pretty good for a Thursday. And ready to dig i, to this title, Prophecy of the Homecoming of My Roman Soldier. But, before we get into that, I was curious because you position yourself as a medium and a shaman. So what came first? How did you find yourself on this path?
Winnifred Davis: From childhood I had many psychic experiences and, eventually, I became a shaman. I married my second husband, and he was an extraordinary, shaman in Jamaica. Legendary one, very famous one in Jamaica. They would call him an Obia man, which has a bad connotation, but as I know, it’s the intention that decides whether what you do is good or what you do is bad.
And so I married him because that was my soul contract. I just instinctively knew where I was going and I was a shaman in previous lifetimes, so I was just growing into what I used to do. And so while he didn’t teach me, he guided me. And so here I am,
Johnny Burke: So it sounds to me that your abilities of both being a medium and a shaman presented themselves pretty much at the same time.
Winnifred Davis: The difference between a psychic medium and a shaman, a shaman is a psychic medium plus they make changes. And I have a relative who does tarot cards and what she said to me, and I find that sums everything up. She says, you know, Winny, we do the cards, we read, but you make things happen. So a shaman makes things happen. They take it another level and make things happen. So that came after I met my second husband.
Johnny Burke: Okay. So now we know the difference between a shaman and a medium because they do similar things, don’t they?
Winnifred Davis: Yes, they do similar things, but the shaman makes things happen. For example, as a psychic medium, you can see where someone needs to lift their vibrations, so you can advise them, but you will not be able to help the individual lift the vibrations because sometimes they don’t know how to do it. You could say, you know, meditate or whatever, but sometimes you need more than that. You actually need to get other spirits in. To work with that individual and their spirits in order to lift those vibrations. We do exorcisms, psychic mediums do as well, but then sometimes they’re very, challenging, spirits that a psychic medium is not able to do, and not all shaman. It depends on the level of vibration of the ghost, the spirit, and the level of vibration of the shaman and the guides that he has working with him,
Johnny Burke: Okay, so it sounds to me like they have, an extra tool set as it were. It seems like the path is somewhat similar, but we also know that the path of the shaman goes back, what, 40,000 years if not longer?
Winnifred Davis: If not longer.
Johnny Burke: Right. Okay. So speaking of which, that path that you’re on, what have you learned about being a shaman, about the soul, and about reincarnation that you might not have otherwise discovered had you just, went along on the path of a psychic medium?
Winnifred Davis: Well in terms of reincarnation and if you want to say my specialty in writing about that. for me it’s the theoretical, aspect. and shamanism is the application of what you know and being in the spirit world, going back and forth, working with all kinds of spirits, gives me an insight as well. As I muddle through and as I get information with regards to reincarnation, the soul, it gives me a deeper understanding of what’s going on.
Johnny Burke: Let’s talk about the book. What inspired you to write about these two souls? and even before we do that, you had mentioned a soul contract earlier, which means there’s probably been some experience in the in-between space. Life in between lives. Is that true?
Winnifred Davis: Yes. Yes. There has been contact,
Johnny Burke: Right. was this something that you learned very early on, and it was just so clear to you that you never even questioned it, or did someone teach you about these things?
Winnifred Davis: I had my guides and what I call the collective, which would be the archangels, angels, the brotherhood, evangelists, and a whole host of spirits of higher echelons. And they’re the ones who inform me of most of what I know. And at the same time I had two very good friends. They were psychic mediums. One was a past life reader. He was extremely accurate. He’s passed on, he was my confidant as well. And so he helped there. So I got confirmations like I was getting information about my past life. He would confirm without prompting. he would confirm exactly what I was getting.
Johnny Burke: Okay. So you already had knowledge of past lives and reincarnation, of your own past lives. Is that the type of thing that inspired you to write about past lives and reincarnation, and specifically about this book that we’re about to discuss?
Winnifred Davis: Yes, that helped to inspire me, but also, it was information from the higher echelons and my guides. So I was just led into that path. Now it’s the time and when I really got into it, the whole topic of reincarnation was about 1997. I had this question of justice and duty, and it had been going on for decades. Like, I just couldn’t understand why I was so obsessed with duty and justice. So I called the A.R.E. And asked them for a therapist, a regression therapist who would take me back. And I got one in Canada, close to where I was living.
So went to his He had a bookstore. And as I went in, the words came out of my mouth. I looked at him and I said, “oh, you had a past life in China”. And he smiled. And here I was, I didn’t know how to read past lives. And he said “yes as a matter of fact, that was my happiest lifetime. ” And so he took me downstairs and then I was brought back to Atlantis, in something that looked like a spaceship. And while I was in this ship, I was a tall, slim man with a ponytail. And this spaceship, or the vessel craft looked like what you would see on Star Trek. And beside me was a gentleman with flaming red hair and another entity, blonde with green eyes, you know, very green eyes. And I was, going back and forth, pacing back and forth, and they were telling me “No.” and other elders were telling me, “No, no, you can’t take them. They’re not one of us. “You know, like they’re beneath us. And I say, “why not? We have space. We have to leave. “And so I didn’t follow my conscience, I left. You know, the craft took off, exploded, and then I landed somewhere in Scandinavia And I guess that’s why I was obsessed and have been with justice and duty and duty to conscience.
Johnny Burke: You mentioned ARE a moment ago. Can you tell our listeners exactly what that is?
Winnifred Davis: Okay. It’s connected with Edgar Cayce, all his writings and readings. an elderly friend who many years ago had mentioned it and I recalled back in 97, and that’s when I called, looked them up, I Googled them, and then I called.
Johnny Burke: now. Back to the spaceship. I’m dying to know this. How long ago in Earth years do you suppose that was?
Winnifred Davis: I have no idea. No idea. And I have not asked or queried, but it was the last period of Atlantis. I know it was the last period of Atlantis, and I know some people might say it might be 17,000 years or 10,000 years. but I have not asked that question. I suppose in the future I will ask that of my guides.
Johnny Burke: I’m sure that many of us, myself, definitely included, would like to know, because I’ve heard different estimations; could be 10,000. I’ve heard people say it’s a hundred thousand years ago or even, a million years ago. well before our recorded time. So these two souls in the book, who are they and why is it that they’re reunion in present day is imminent? Like it can’t be avoided?
Winnifred Davis: Okay. They were in the second period of Atlantis, and they were king and queen in that kingdom what we now know as Italy. the southern parts of what we now call France along the Mediterranean and some of the islands. Their names were Mummar, King Mummar, and the Queen her name was Risi. He was 26 years old. She was 19. And they were considered like demigods, they came to make a good and just polity. They were very well versed in architecture, agriculture, in all fields. And the reign was about seven years.
They had, a priesthood and the high priest, he took charge of the young king, you know, up until he came of age. Now, he was not pleased that the queen, she had the same amount of power as her husband because they were very close. They often communicated by telepathy. And so, a lot of conspiracy started going on. So the high priest, he conspired with some neighboring kingdoms, and they overthrew the king and queen. So they didn’t get to finish what they came to do, which was to build a good polity for the citizens of their kingdom. They were exiled. The queen was exiled with the youngest son to what we now know as Crete, and the king was exiled to what we now westward to what we now know as Morocco with the older son.
She died 30 years after exile, and he died 40 years after exile. When they went back into the Spirit world, life review and whatever, they made a vow that they would come back in this particular moment in time because this is a very important moment in time. And they would continue what they were doing in Atlantis, they would finish that work. They’re rescue souls. That’s how they first came to earth as rescue souls.
We know rescue souls in everyday life. These are the people that we just automatically, whether we know them or not, we just go to them if we have a problem. And start telling them our problems. Rescue souls will help whenever you ask them for help, they never refuse. And if they see you need help, they won’t ask. They will help you. They also operate on the spiritual plane, or should I say in the astral plane, where sometimes people that they don’t know in this lifetime , when they’re about to die, wherever those people might be in different corners of the earth, they will come in the spirit and the rescue soul will travel the astral plane and they will get the message they’re going or sometimes they need help to cross over. They need to be consoled to cross over. I, for example, I’m a rescue soul, so I have different experiences with that or people I might have seen them once ,clients of mine, might not have heard from them for like 10 years, and all of a sudden I get a call, you know, they’re in the hospital and they just need me to come in and speak with them, and then they go, or sometimes they’re in a coma.
The one case I had; the gentleman was in a coma. I was very close with him, and I was in Jamaica at the time. His family waited until I came back, but he was in the hospital for about 14 days. There was no reaction from him and they wanted to take him off the respirator. They waited until I came. I went into the hospital and how I got in, he was in I C U. That’s another phenomenon. And I went in, and I spoke with him and at the same time, he made a gesture with his hand and the nurse came in and she was shocked. And the next day he passed on.
Johnny Burke: These two entities, what was the woman’s name again?
Winnifred Davis: Her name was Risi.
Johnny Burke: Can you spell that?
Winnifred Davis: R I SI. That’s how I pronounce it. And he was a Mummar.
Johnny Burke: Mummar. And these two were rescue souls, why is it important that they have to come back now 2023 or 2022?
Winnifred Davis: These two souls, and it’s worth noting they have had at least 28 lifetimes together shared lifetimes. That is an awful lot of lifetimes and as many as 43 if not more. So they’re very close. They have an abiding love, and as rescue souls, they want to help. War cut short their reign; war, greed, betrayal. And so now a war that has brought them back here because a lot of souls from Atlantis are back here and you find a lot of tyrants around. And so a lot of karmic debt is being, settled being paid and, so that’s why they’ve come back. Both are now in versions of exile, so it’s sort of like unbreaking the broken egg.
Johnny Burke: Are you in contact with them?
Winnifred Davis: Yes, I am one entity does not know. The other entity is in the know, and it was prophesied to her because she’s a psychic medium herself, but it was prophesied to her by some other psychic mediums that this would happen,
Johnny Burke: Great. So you’re saying that they had to come back now because there is a war.Is this like a literal war that’s about to happen or is it a war that’s already happening?
Winnifred Davis: It’s a war that’s already happening. so they’ve come backin this time because there are many wars happening right now. Many, many wars are happening, and so they have come back now to teach some of what we are speaking about here. You know, people are looking because religious institutions are not giving them what they want, so they’re here to make people know who we are, you know, spiritual beings experiencing human life and different things connected with reincarnation to help us bring our souls back into equilibrium and how to do it. They will do a lot of charity work. they will heal. She does healing. They will be writing the continuation of their story together. He doesn’t know it yet because he’s not a writer.He’ll be shocked, he’ll be writing, and they will teach and so they will do so much good that even they cannot imagine how many people’s lives they will impact.
The second part of their journey, what I just described, is the Neptunian journey. And the second part of the Neptunian journey is they will serve as living proof testament to the truth that is reincarnation and its facts. So the seven lifetimes that they shared that are relevant to this particular karmic journey, those are mentioned in the book, and so you’ll have, for example, the masks from the Lucifer Syndrome that, our culture, our race, our gender, all those things are masks behind which hides the Lucifer Syndrome. And those masks do not travel with you from lifetime to lifetime. So they have lived in Gujarat, in India. They have lived in Lemuria. the male entity, he’s been female in Lemuria. They’ve lived in France, what we now know as France, England. They’ve been different religions. They’ve had different vocations.
So they will be living proof that yes, it does exist. The fact that the book is written before they reunite is also testament to the fact that you can use the akashic records and predict, because that’s how we predict things by going into the akashic records and a whole lot of other things, facts of reincarnation that they will be testament to.
Johnny Burke: Now you also mentioned Lemuria, which I’ve heard about several times. Can you give us a very brief description for those of us who may not have heard about it?
Winnifred Davis: Well, for me Lemuria and Mu are the same thing, and it was located in the Pacific Ocean, Indian Ocean, Pacific Ocean around that area. And it would be older than Atlantis. Atlantis, was a colony of Mu. That would be, according to what we know so far, the oldest, it’s not lost. There’s a book called The Lost Continent of Mu, but it’s not lost. Swallowed up maybe by the ocean or the seas, but it’s not lost.
Johnny Burke: It’s not lost. Now these two entities, Mummar and Risi, I believe.
Winnifred Davis: Yes.
Johnny Burke: Has their journey or their experience shed any light on what many have described as the fall of Atlantis?
Winnifred Davis: No, it has not. But I would imagine when they do reunite such questions they might write about, but the fall of Atlantis, we know part of it is, because of man’s corruption, right? And the things that we do.
Johnny Burke: I don’t remember that. Although I’ve had several guest speakers who’ve been on the show before that have basically said we were all in Atlantis at one [00:20:00] time or another because Atlantis had several periods. It wasn’t just one. The most common version I’ve heard is that corruption and the greed, took place and the consciousness if you could measure. It really just kind of went into what, a stock market, watcher would call a bear market. It just fell off a cliff.
Winnifred Davis: If you’re having corruption and greed, what comes after that that would lead you to wars? you know, not thinking about your fellow human being or your brother. You might make bombs, and everything flows from that. right? Which is what I call the Lucifer Syndrome.That selfishness, the craving for power. And then you hide behind those masks you know, you separate, and you segregate.
Johnny Burke: Okay. Now since we are on the subject and, Atlantis is, and Lemuria as well, are very fascinating subjects. Your direct experience, your past lives in Atlantis, What are the most important things that you can remember or the lessons that you learned or that we can learn?
Winnifred Davis: Well, for example, the one with justice your duty is to your conscience because when we were created, we were created with a free will as spirits, equal as spirits and the conscience to guide. And that conscience is what takes you back. That links you to the creator, and your duty is to that conscience. You can’t pass the buck. That’s what makes each of us responsible for the wellbeing of our soul because we can’t say it’s the devil; that’s a creation. There’s no devil. We can’t blame what we do on our general. My general made me do it, you are responsible for the wellbeing of your soul because you have that conscience to guide you.
Johnny Burke: Good point about the devil. Although I’ve heard different versions of that; people that have had experiences that talk about demons and creatures that do not have our best interests at heart.
Winnifred Davis: Yes. Okay. Yes, you do. You do have spirits and you have different spirits of different vibrations so on the lower level like if you are thinking negatively, you are attracting these spirits and misery loves company, right ?So you think, and they come and so the more negative you become, it’s the more of them that come in because it’s sort of like honey to a bear, right? You know that negative thinking. So Yes, they’re demons, but they’re not the devil as we know Lucifer.
which I don’t agree with that, but, even the demons eventually will regain equilibrium. It’s just a matter of when.
Johnny Burke: I’m curious about this because it’s a very tricky subject to say the least. I’ve heard a lot about duality, and these are people that have been in the in-between space and have seen the life reviews and, the Council of 12 and the soul family and all their different past lives. They talk about duality a lot, and one of the takeaways seems to be, and I’ve heard several people actually say this, is that there is no good and no bad. It’s all experience. And sometimes we need bad experiences.
In other words, we need to know what it feels like to be a murderer, as much as we need to know what it feels like to be the victim. Does that have anything to do with demons or any creatures like that where it’s their desire for experience, or is it just because they take the easy way out and they’re selfish and they don’t care about anybody else?
Winnifred Davis: According to the information that I have gotten from my guides and the collective, duality came into being when we sinned. When we came to earth, according to what Cayce says, we were created equal as spirits and with our free will, we saw the processes going on on earth. And so we decided to get involved.
In Jamaica, they have a saying that dance fast, mash it up. In other words, it’s okay to look. But once you get involved, that’s where the problem begins. And so that’s where the first sin is, and I’ll just briefly explain what a sin is. So we committed a spiritual mistake because we should not, that was not our destiny. We rebelled against our destiny. Then there an imbalance was created in the soul. And that imbalance has led to duality. So it’s, you cannot know good. Unless you know bad and you cannot know virtue unless you know vice. Having said that, you have like this journey back to equilibrium, which is like a ladder, right? And you’re going up that ladder. So I wouldn’t say, it’s the experience that we need to know. I wouldn’t explain it that way.
Johnny Burke: So for the layman, for the person that’s just trying to really understand good and evil and duality, what’s the simplest way to actually explain it?
Winnifred Davis: Duality, it’s good and evil. Good is the permanent state of the soul. Evil, and whatever term we want to use came about with the mistakes that we made, the spiritual mistakes that we committed when we rebelled against our destiny and became fallen angels. So that’s how we would, would term it,but it’s not a permanent state.
Johnny Burke: It’s not a permanent state. So a lot of what you’re talking about is there are definitely parallels in religious texts like the Bible for instance. How do we know, or how do you know that this is absolute truth? For someone who has not had the intuitive experience and you know, they go to church or they go to temple or wherever they go to worship and they’re struggling with the idea of good and evil, right? How do you explain that to them, where it actually starts to make sense where they know this isn’t a fallacy or a fantasy or a superstition, because we all know that the Bible has several inaccuracies and that’s putting it mildly,
Winnifred Davis: Oh, no, no, no. It has, quite a bit. Let us consider the principle of the fatherhood of God, brotherhood of man doing unto others as we would have others do unto us. That’s the one principle you need to know. So anything that contravenes that is what you might say is bad or evil because you are not doing good for your brother, you are not respecting the fatherhood of God. And respecting the fatherhood of God, you have to respect the brotherhood of man. That’s how you pay, respect to the creator by what we do with each other.
Johnny Burke: okay, who is the creator? Is the creator a person, an entity? Is it a thing? Is it consciousness? I know it’s not an easy question, but what exactly is it?
Winnifred Davis: We’re using all these terms so doesn’t matter whether we say it’s a being, we know that it’s not a human. Let us just say being, because we don’t know what being is, right? consciousness being could be consciousness. So it’s just terminology. And I don’t like to get bogged down in terminology because that’s what makes problems, like when there’s just too much dogma.
Usually you find the truth in simplicity when you have something with a whole lot of dogma so complex and lies develop and hide in the webs of complexity. So, consciousness, being, entity, we just know it’s the creator. Doesn’t matter what name we give it. And of course the creator would have created us.
He would be, he or she or they would be omnipotent. Sort of like when you say you’re going to fight for God; you can’t fight for God, how can you?that’s arrogance in itself. You understand what I mean? So, you know, it’s just being content, whatever terminology we want to use. One day in the future I will ask that question and perhaps the keeper of the secrets will choose to give us the answer.
Johnny Burke: Now the keeper of the secrets that you just mentioned, is this a spirit guide or some type of entity that is maybe related to an angel?
Winnifred Davis: Yes. It’s an archangel. Yes.
Johnny Burke: Okay. Good.
Winnifred Davis: Of the secret. Yes.
Johnny Burke: I like that. I think a lot of people that have direct experience with what we call the unseen world, or the non-physical world will talk about a love for Jesus and other ascended masters as well because there’s actually quite a few of them. And they do talk about angels and archangels. Michael, that’s one we hear about, quite a bit. It’s really interesting that they’re the same people that will openly admit that the Bible is rife with error and, someone’s, objectives and, agendas, which I think is really, really interesting. So, let’s recap here. You learned a lot from your past lives and reincarnation and the two people, the characters in your book are based on real beings. It’s not a fiction,
Winnifred Davis: No, it’s not fiction. This is real
Johnny Burke: It’s not a fiction. Okay, good. As part of their mission, they’re going to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that reincarnation and the whole cycle, birth, death in between space, healing space, casting our next lives as if it’s a movie, they’re going to basically prove that to us?
Winnifred Davis: Yes, they will be living proof that their existence [00:30:00] and their past lives. And seven of them that are revealed in the book that are to this Venusian Neptunian karmic journey will be proof. it’s proving the whole thing, testament, of soul cycle, for example. The fact that you have to as well fulfill and your self- soul contract before you can go on to honor a bigger contract. And so both entities are now honoring their self-soul contract because that’s the only way they can reunite. And only after they have done that, will that happen.
Johnny Burke: I am going to go out on a limb here, and I know this is going to be a very big ask, but since you are in contact with both of these entities-
Winnifred Davis: I’m in contact with one.
Johnny Burke: With one.
Winnifred Davis: The one in the know
Johnny Burke: is that Mummar? or is that Risi?
Winnifred Davis: That’s Risi
Johnny Burke: Okay. What are the chances that we can have Risi actually come on the show here?
Winnifred Davis: When she reunites with Mummar.
Winnifred Davis: Then they will tell their own story and. You will be one of the first, if not the first,
Johnny Burke: Have to be the first.
Winnifred Davis: Yes. You will be the first to hear, yes. Yes, exactly. To hear their story
Johnny Burke: By the way, I think I need to bring this up for those, people that do ask from time to time “Where did you get the name for the podcast? “It was actually a name of a synth pop group, a musical group in Los Angeles about 2008. But for some reason I was always really drawn to the name, so I kept it. And it’s interesting that I’ve had some people talk about, like you just mentioned, a karmic Venusian to Neptunian journey.
Winnifred Davis: It’s synchronicity and here I am.
Johnny Burke: I just got lucky with the name. That’s really all that means. I don’t have any special insight. I think we all know that. But, at the same time, I’m curious; what exactly is a Venusian to Neptunian karmic journey? What does that exactly mean?
Winnifred Davis: Okay. A Venusian Karmic journey would be between two individuals, on a karmic journey. So it could be romantic love, it could be in business, it could be in the arts and what have you. You know, Venus, Aphrodite, it’s all about love and getting along .
The next level to that is Neptunian. Now, Neptunian is not just a journey or relationship between two people. It’s the relationship with the world. And so in a Neptunian karmic journey, you know, some people would say it’s, it’s very, like, very quixotic or it’s megalomanic, or narcissistic because it sounds so highfalutin, it’s not real. But this is real because they could not have made that vow with the guidance of their guides and the higher echelons if it were not possible to do.
So on the flip side of that, because Neptunian journeys could end up being disillusioned and what have you. But with this journey, the Neptunian is divine love. Loving your brother, helping self-help. They are rescue souls that’s in their, should we say, in their DNA. So that’s what they know. They can’t help it. That’s what they’re here for. Giving people agency. So being testament to the facts of reincarnation and the mere fact that they’re here and they’re able to tell their story. That is one side.
And then all the other facts, they will have to deal with some of their adversaries from Atlantis. And they have come back. The male entity has to deal with them. The female entity had to deal with them because they believed they could cheat karma. So, they have not reincarnated in their proper soul cycle. So they have not learned enough. So they are still with all this animosity and this hate, not admitting, for example, that they have done something wrong. The one entity, this entity was the father of the male entity in one lifetime. And this was in Roman Britannia.
In Roman Britannia, the male entity was a Roman soldier known as Petronius. The female was a Celtic shaman or high priestess. Her name was Gwenffrewi. And he was the father to the Roman soldier. I. And again in Stanford, and that’s not Stanford, Connecticut, that’s Stanford Lincolnshire in England. He was the father of the female entity, Ruth. And he prevented the marriage between the two entities. And so that particular entity has now come back in this lifetime, but they have since passed and they are also helping to put the two entities together. The female entity has channeled when she channels and goes back, that entity has popped in, and asked for forgiveness. And so, you have those from Atlantis who have not asked for forgiveness; they still continue on death, it doesn’t make everyone wise, and here you have another entity who regrets what they did.
Johnny Burke: For those people who have genuine remorse for the things they did that were obviously not good. Are they more apt to climb up the spiritual ladder as it were? to get closer to being a light being than those who don’t admit or do not want to admit their mistakes?
Winnifred Davis: Yes, they are because you now get humility, forgiveness and love. And that’s redemptive guilt. So you have humility, and humility opens the door to learning. When we are humble, we say, teach me. I want to learn. Forgive me, I made a mistake. And we try to institute correct actions to correct incorrect actions. Sometimes, you might slip up, cut yourself some slack, try again, and so you learn to forgive yourself, and that’s very important. And forgive others, unconditional forgiveness. And you learn to love yourself. And you have to love yourself in order to create the space to love others and unconditionally love others.
And so you can respect the difference of opinion and belief of others. Respect, not tolerate, respect. As long as those opinions do not contravene the principle of the fatherhood of God, brotherhood of man, doing unto others as we would have others do unto us. Love one divine universal love. On the other hand, you have judgment that keeps us down the ladder because judgment closes the door to learning.
When we judge, we say, well, we know better. My way is the best way. And so what do we do? We tolerate and by tolerating, you say, oh, well my idea is better, And so we use destructive guilt there. Because we are not gonna apologize. And if anyone apologizes to us, it’s conditional forgiveness. And we use that destructive guilt as the church does sometimes our parents to control and usurp the free will of others. and we conditionally love people. I love you but- that keeps you down. Humility and forgiveness are a liberating force that gives the soul the wings to fly and be free up the ladder to equilibrium.
Johnny Burke: I think we’re gonna stop right there because the next question would be normally, is there anything else we should know? But I think
Winnifred Davis: It’s, a lot
Johnny Burke: Yeah, it’s a lot. And I think we will have another conversation, on these matters to be continued. Winifred, thanks so much for joining us today. very, very good information, and I think a lot of us are already looking forward to the part two. In the meantime, how can our listeners find you online?
Winnifred Davis: Okay. My website is https://naazimainc.com/